I have not read the article yet in the ALPA magazine, but I discussed the issue with some pilots that were present at Continental Express when the jet showed up.

What I was told is that the EMB 145 was initially offered to CO mainline pilots and that they turned it down? One reason that was given is that it was too small for their big egos. Another reason, is that the pay would be too low?

Ok, so now they want the flying back. Apparantely the EMB 145 took some MD-80/737 routes?

And last but not least, CO mainline pilots also turned down merging the seniority list with COEX pilots?

Is that all accurate information?

I am all for having all jets be flown at CO and now the new UA, I would rather be over there making more money, but what is the reality of it? 1) How many years would it take to retrain pilots? 2) what is the chance of success in negotiating with the new UA to buy 70 and 100 seater jets?

So yeah, ok you can talk all you want about doing away with regional jets at the new UA, but do you have a tangible plan? or is it just all talk?

 

Pointing fingers does nothing but stir the pot. No one saw the regional jet being as popular as it was. When CAL placed the order for 275 fifty seaters i am sure some mouths dropped and the hatred for them was born. Hindsight is a real mother. Give management an inch and they will take a mile.

I know that it wasn't just CAL ALPA that didnt want to merge the lists. There were vocal minorities on each side that didnt want it to happen. I got to fly with one on the express side but he has since realized CAL managements master plan of screwing XJT into oblivion and bringing in the lowest bidder. Now the CAL guys are fighting to have a job in the future all the while management is salivating at the idea of 100 seaters flown by a third party.

Our careers are riding on what the CAL/UAL pilots come up with...

 

nobody sawl the rj taking over. Management did! Ua/co will not get the 50 scope that co had. Maybe at 70.

 

I disagree on the issue of scope, at United it is clearly a line in the sand that the pilots will strike over. I don't think anyone expects things to change overnight, new flying goes to mainline and as contracts expire with the express carriers they are not renewed. As I understand it, United owns or has guraanteed a lot of the RJ's presently flying.

 

My Pops is a 20 yr UA CA and has told me the UA guys seem to have this clear as the dickins in their minds, scope is going to be huge over the next few years.

 

I still havent heard any plans from any mainline union reps, or even just mainline line pilots who have an idea how they will get all the RJ flying back. Between UAL and CAL there are 10+ different carriers providing feed with over 600 RJ and prop airframes.

Even if Mainline Unions convinced mgmt to merge seniority lists it would take another decade before the integration of UAL + CAL + 10 other regionals who also perform flying for other mainline carriers. Never gonna happen.

Next, if Mainline labor says "We'll fly the 50seaters for half of what you pay SKYW/XJT/CHQ/TSA/Colgan/etc" there is still absolutely no F-in way the company can just waltz in and cancel all the feed contracts so that they can re-train hundreds(thousands?) of UAL/CAL pilots to fly the RJs and props flown at Express carriers.

Lastly, Mainline labor somehow gets management to agree to never sign another CPA or outsource another plane to be flown by a pilot not on the UAL/CAL seniority list... how long will that take before all regional feed contracts expire? A decade? All while DAL continues to outsource everything they can and take market share behind the exiting UAL/CAL regional carriers.

Believe me, I would be sooo happy to see all flying go back to mainline. I just honestly dont know HOW that can be done? When someone comes up with a plan that is more than just rhetoric please page me.

 

yes, exactly.

 

Reread my post Flyby. I don't expect that the mainline carriers would purchase the express carriers or integrate their pilots. As new flying is added it would go to mainline, and as contracts expire, that flying would go to mainline as well. It would be a long process, but very viable.

 

With all due respect...stop thinking tactically, and start thinking strategically.

How long did it take UAL to get to the point where over half of their daily departures were UAX jets - 15 years? A combined UAL/CAL will have a ton of carriers with contracts of varying lengths and its absolutely ridiculous for anybody to actually believe a wand will be waived and UAL will cancel all regional contracts or assume all that flying. That being said, if UCAL ALPA is somehow able to negotiate that as regional CPAs expire they are not renewed, even if just on 51+ seat "small jets", this will be a huge boon to the mainline pilot group and WILL swell their ranks over the long term. It will maintain status quo for now, but over years regional aircraft will start to go away and unless New United management is happy to concede a ton of market share to their competition they'll replace those RJs with likely a smaller number of larger narrowbody aircraft...swelling the mainline pilot ranks.

Additionally, Delta is reducing the number (while increasing the average seat count) of their outsourced regional aircraft while remaining within DALPA scope.

 

So will those aircraft just be sent to the desert? Or will mainline pilots fly 50 seaters again one day?

Would mainline pilots realistically be willing to work for lower payscales than regionals? That is what it would take for the flying to come back in-house