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-   -   XJ 9E 9L SLI Thread (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/56864-xj-9e-9l-sli-thread.html)

FlyJSH 02-09-2011 08:32 AM

XJ 9E 9L SLI Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spank (Post 944057)
Hey gang,

I passed on Colgan and Pinnacle when the opportunity came up for a number of personal reasons. It looks as though things may be taking a turn though. With SLI seeming inevitable at this point has anyone heard any facts (or rumors, I'm not picky) about what those of us who were f'ed can expect?

I am in a fairly secure non-aviation job now, but have started to get the itch to atleast consider coming back if/when the opportunity arises. (I may be able to swing my current job part time if I do come back to aviation) I know there are tons of people on the street that would give their first born for a job right now; so the last thing I want to do is come across sounding like a self absorbed jerk.

My bottom line is this...I have been laid off twice now, and can not afford a third time. I have a steady income, and plenty of debt to pay off. I would not want to spend another year? on reserve if I could avoid it as well. When I look past all the negatives the airline lifestyle brings (scheduling, QOL, nights away from family), I really enjoyed my time at Mesaba (good crews, Austin overnights;), incredible view from the office).

There it is...any thoughts?

There are two schools of thought regarding furloughees.

One is they WERE hired and HAD a seniority number prior to the purchase of Mesaba, so they should be included in the SLI. If this method is used, you would be integrated somewhere in the final list ABOVE those hired AFTER the snapshot.

The other says because one was furloughed on the purchase date, his job did not exist, he was not an employee, therefore he has no right to be integrated. As such, he would NOT be included in the SLI. If this method is used and you were hired tomarrow, your seniority date (since you did not take the offers) would be tomorrow: no seniority. Had you taken the offer, at least you would have been senior to all the folks hired since the purchase.


Quote:

Originally Posted by v1valarob (Post 944063)
We will be one airline very soon. If youre hired into Colgan, then you will be placed on the Saab or Q and will go to a Colgan base initially. After the SLI shakes out and they run some sort of vacancy bid, you will then be able to bid all over the system, assuming there are no fences. Under the JCBA we are currently voting on, you can move throughout the system Pinnacle RJ FO to Mesaba FO to Mesaba Q FO. Of course there are seat locks and all that.

Anyone hired AFTER the snapshot will be unaffected by fences since those folks will be below the most junior person on the SLI.

Bartok 02-09-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyJSH (Post 944499)
There are two schools of thought regarding furloughees.

One is they WERE hired and HAD a seniority number prior to the purchase of Mesaba, so they should be included in the SLI. If this method is used, you would be integrated somewhere in the final list ABOVE those hired AFTER the snapshot.

The other says because one was furloughed on the purchase date, his job did not exist, he was not an employee, therefore he has no right to be integrated. As such, he would NOT be included in the SLI. If this method is used and you were hired tomarrow, your seniority date (since you did not take the offers) would be tomorrow: no seniority. Had you taken the offer, at least you would have been senior to all the folks hired since the purchase.




Anyone hired AFTER the snapshot will be unaffected by fences since those folks will be below the most junior person on the SLI.

Wrong.

All XJ furloughs maintain their original XJ seniority date for SLI.

CRJPlt 02-09-2011 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 944524)
Wrong.

All XJ furloughs maintain their original XJ seniority date for SLI.


This is the way the MOU reads however, I hope some deal is struck that allows the furloughees who took jobs at 9L and 9E the ability to use their new number at that company, which would be date of hire since we were all hired after 7/1/10. I don't see how it is "fair and equitable" that right now I am senior to about 100+ guys at both 9L/9E and after SLI and I am forced to use my XJ number that practically overnight I will be junior to these guys I was just senior to the day before.

Avroman 02-09-2011 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944551)
This is the way the MOU reads however, I hope some deal is struck that allows the furloughees who took jobs at 9L and 9E the ability to use their new number at that company, which would be date of hire since we were all hired after 7/1/10. I don't see how it is "fair and equitable" that right now I am senior to about 100+ guys at both 9L/9E and after SLI and I am forced to use my XJ number that practically overnight I will be junior to these guys I was just senior to the day before.

If the agreement is followed and you were "hired at 9E/9L" AFTER 7-1-10 You would be BETTER off with your XJ furloughed hire date. The agreeement was that ANYONE hired ANYWHERE AFTER 7-1-10 would automatically be stapled by DOH after the last person from the merged lists hired BEFORE 7-1-10. So you should be no worse, and likely better off using your XJ seniority. Will the arbitrator agree since furloughs typically are thrown under the bus, have it back up and hit them again? Anyones guess. But the prelim. agreement was you would still be better in the merger using your XJ number pre purchase.

CRJPlt 02-09-2011 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 944563)
If the agreement is followed and you were "hired at 9E/9L" AFTER 7-1-10 You would be BETTER off with your XJ furloughed hire date. The agreeement was that ANYONE hired ANYWHERE AFTER 7-1-10 would automatically be stapled by DOH after the last person from the merged lists hired BEFORE 7-1-10. So you should be no worse, and likely better off using your XJ seniority. Will the arbitrator agree since furloughs typically are thrown under the bus, have it back up and hit them again? Anyones guess. But the prelim. agreement was you would still be better in the merger using your XJ number pre purchase.

I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

Bartok 02-09-2011 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944596)
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

Who were you talking to? That's totally wrong.

The MOU that allows 9E and 9L to hire XJ furloughs specifically states that XJ pilots will use their original XJ hire dates for SLI.

Even if it goes to arbitration the arbitrator will have to use this agreement because it's a binding contract.

XJ MEC will do everything possible to make sure this happens, I wouldn't worry about it.

jayray2 02-09-2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944596)
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

That sounds crazy but you never know. This thing has brought about a level of selfishness from pilots that I had yet to witness. It is all about me. What do we at Mesaba get? What do we at Pinnacle get? Why don't you support us? What kind of raise do I get? How high will my seniority be? Every single question is about us or me. Everyone is out for themselves in this deal. No one took the time to realize that new hires in this deal will be trying to live on 23K in greater NY city. How is that going to work? Well, no one cares because it doesn't affect anyone on property. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

SErickson 02-09-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944596)
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.

CRJPlt 02-09-2011 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SErickson (Post 944628)
From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.

That makes me feel better. Thanks!

donk74 02-10-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SErickson (Post 944628)
From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.

Hey Scott Thanks for looking out for YOUR fellow Pinnacle Pilots (Sarcasm)!


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