Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-09-2011, 08:32 AM   #1  
Day puke
Thread Starter
 
FlyJSH's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,844
Default XJ 9E 9L SLI Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by spank View Post
Hey gang,

I passed on Colgan and Pinnacle when the opportunity came up for a number of personal reasons. It looks as though things may be taking a turn though. With SLI seeming inevitable at this point has anyone heard any facts (or rumors, I'm not picky) about what those of us who were f'ed can expect?

I am in a fairly secure non-aviation job now, but have started to get the itch to atleast consider coming back if/when the opportunity arises. (I may be able to swing my current job part time if I do come back to aviation) I know there are tons of people on the street that would give their first born for a job right now; so the last thing I want to do is come across sounding like a self absorbed jerk.

My bottom line is this...I have been laid off twice now, and can not afford a third time. I have a steady income, and plenty of debt to pay off. I would not want to spend another year? on reserve if I could avoid it as well. When I look past all the negatives the airline lifestyle brings (scheduling, QOL, nights away from family), I really enjoyed my time at Mesaba (good crews, Austin overnights, incredible view from the office).

There it is...any thoughts?
There are two schools of thought regarding furloughees.

One is they WERE hired and HAD a seniority number prior to the purchase of Mesaba, so they should be included in the SLI. If this method is used, you would be integrated somewhere in the final list ABOVE those hired AFTER the snapshot.

The other says because one was furloughed on the purchase date, his job did not exist, he was not an employee, therefore he has no right to be integrated. As such, he would NOT be included in the SLI. If this method is used and you were hired tomarrow, your seniority date (since you did not take the offers) would be tomorrow: no seniority. Had you taken the offer, at least you would have been senior to all the folks hired since the purchase.


Quote:
Originally Posted by v1valarob View Post
We will be one airline very soon. If youre hired into Colgan, then you will be placed on the Saab or Q and will go to a Colgan base initially. After the SLI shakes out and they run some sort of vacancy bid, you will then be able to bid all over the system, assuming there are no fences. Under the JCBA we are currently voting on, you can move throughout the system Pinnacle RJ FO to Mesaba FO to Mesaba Q FO. Of course there are seat locks and all that.
Anyone hired AFTER the snapshot will be unaffected by fences since those folks will be below the most junior person on the SLI.
FlyJSH is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 09:28 AM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Bartok's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyJSH View Post
There are two schools of thought regarding furloughees.

One is they WERE hired and HAD a seniority number prior to the purchase of Mesaba, so they should be included in the SLI. If this method is used, you would be integrated somewhere in the final list ABOVE those hired AFTER the snapshot.

The other says because one was furloughed on the purchase date, his job did not exist, he was not an employee, therefore he has no right to be integrated. As such, he would NOT be included in the SLI. If this method is used and you were hired tomarrow, your seniority date (since you did not take the offers) would be tomorrow: no seniority. Had you taken the offer, at least you would have been senior to all the folks hired since the purchase.




Anyone hired AFTER the snapshot will be unaffected by fences since those folks will be below the most junior person on the SLI.
Wrong.

All XJ furloughs maintain their original XJ seniority date for SLI.
Bartok is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 10:45 AM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
CRJPlt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: 320B
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartok View Post
Wrong.

All XJ furloughs maintain their original XJ seniority date for SLI.

This is the way the MOU reads however, I hope some deal is struck that allows the furloughees who took jobs at 9L and 9E the ability to use their new number at that company, which would be date of hire since we were all hired after 7/1/10. I don't see how it is "fair and equitable" that right now I am senior to about 100+ guys at both 9L/9E and after SLI and I am forced to use my XJ number that practically overnight I will be junior to these guys I was just senior to the day before.
CRJPlt is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 11:10 AM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Avroman's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 2,945
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRJPlt View Post
This is the way the MOU reads however, I hope some deal is struck that allows the furloughees who took jobs at 9L and 9E the ability to use their new number at that company, which would be date of hire since we were all hired after 7/1/10. I don't see how it is "fair and equitable" that right now I am senior to about 100+ guys at both 9L/9E and after SLI and I am forced to use my XJ number that practically overnight I will be junior to these guys I was just senior to the day before.
If the agreement is followed and you were "hired at 9E/9L" AFTER 7-1-10 You would be BETTER off with your XJ furloughed hire date. The agreeement was that ANYONE hired ANYWHERE AFTER 7-1-10 would automatically be stapled by DOH after the last person from the merged lists hired BEFORE 7-1-10. So you should be no worse, and likely better off using your XJ seniority. Will the arbitrator agree since furloughs typically are thrown under the bus, have it back up and hit them again? Anyones guess. But the prelim. agreement was you would still be better in the merger using your XJ number pre purchase.
Avroman is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 12:22 PM   #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
CRJPlt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: 320B
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avroman View Post
If the agreement is followed and you were "hired at 9E/9L" AFTER 7-1-10 You would be BETTER off with your XJ furloughed hire date. The agreeement was that ANYONE hired ANYWHERE AFTER 7-1-10 would automatically be stapled by DOH after the last person from the merged lists hired BEFORE 7-1-10. So you should be no worse, and likely better off using your XJ seniority. Will the arbitrator agree since furloughs typically are thrown under the bus, have it back up and hit them again? Anyones guess. But the prelim. agreement was you would still be better in the merger using your XJ number pre purchase.
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority
CRJPlt is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 12:53 PM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Bartok's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRJPlt View Post
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority
Who were you talking to? That's totally wrong.

The MOU that allows 9E and 9L to hire XJ furloughs specifically states that XJ pilots will use their original XJ hire dates for SLI.

Even if it goes to arbitration the arbitrator will have to use this agreement because it's a binding contract.

XJ MEC will do everything possible to make sure this happens, I wouldn't worry about it.
Bartok is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:00 PM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRJPlt View Post
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority
That sounds crazy but you never know. This thing has brought about a level of selfishness from pilots that I had yet to witness. It is all about me. What do we at Mesaba get? What do we at Pinnacle get? Why don't you support us? What kind of raise do I get? How high will my seniority be? Every single question is about us or me. Everyone is out for themselves in this deal. No one took the time to realize that new hires in this deal will be trying to live on 23K in greater NY city. How is that going to work? Well, no one cares because it doesn't affect anyone on property. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
jayray2 is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 01:50 PM   #8  
Line Holder
 
SErickson's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: M88B
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRJPlt View Post
I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority
From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.
SErickson is offline  
Old 02-09-2011, 04:55 PM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
CRJPlt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: 320B
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SErickson View Post
From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.
That makes me feel better. Thanks!
CRJPlt is offline  
Old 02-10-2011, 01:43 PM   #10  
Line Holder
 
donk74's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Gear Thrower
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SErickson View Post
From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.
Hey Scott Thanks for looking out for YOUR fellow Pinnacle Pilots (Sarcasm)!
donk74 is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI mastercraft Major 750 02-09-2011 08:39 AM
Moak Thread Moved 757Driver Major 0 10-13-2010 01:33 PM
No Thread specified... ??? ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE Hangar Talk 2 04-12-2008 10:46 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:32 AM.