Originally Posted by spank (Post 944057)

Hey gang,

I passed on Colgan and Pinnacle when the opportunity came up for a number of personal reasons. It looks as though things may be taking a turn though. With SLI seeming inevitable at this point has anyone heard any facts (or rumors, I'm not picky) about what those of us who were f'ed can expect?

I am in a fairly secure non-aviation job now, but have started to get the itch to atleast consider coming back if/when the opportunity arises. (I may be able to swing my current job part time if I do come back to aviation) I know there are tons of people on the street that would give their first born for a job right now; so the last thing I want to do is come across sounding like a self absorbed jerk.

My bottom line is this...I have been laid off twice now, and can not afford a third time. I have a steady income, and plenty of debt to pay off. I would not want to spend another year? on reserve if I could avoid it as well. When I look past all the negatives the airline lifestyle brings (scheduling, QOL, nights away from family), I really enjoyed my time at Mesaba (good crews, Austin overnights;), incredible view from the office).

There it is...any thoughts?

Originally Posted by v1valarob (Post 944063)

We will be one airline very soon. If youre hired into Colgan, then you will be placed on the Saab or Q and will go to a Colgan base initially. After the SLI shakes out and they run some sort of vacancy bid, you will then be able to bid all over the system, assuming there are no fences. Under the JCBA we are currently voting on, you can move throughout the system Pinnacle RJ FO to Mesaba FO to Mesaba Q FO. Of course there are seat locks and all that.

Originally Posted by FlyJSH (Post 944499)

There are two schools of thought regarding furloughees.

One is they WERE hired and HAD a seniority number prior to the purchase of Mesaba, so they should be included in the SLI. If this method is used, you would be integrated somewhere in the final list ABOVE those hired AFTER the snapshot.

The other says because one was furloughed on the purchase date, his job did not exist, he was not an employee, therefore he has no right to be integrated. As such, he would NOT be included in the SLI. If this method is used and you were hired tomarrow, your seniority date (since you did not take the offers) would be tomorrow: no seniority. Had you taken the offer, at least you would have been senior to all the folks hired since the purchase.




Anyone hired AFTER the snapshot will be unaffected by fences since those folks will be below the most junior person on the SLI.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 944524)

Wrong.

All XJ furloughs maintain their original XJ seniority date for SLI.

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944551)

This is the way the MOU reads however, I hope some deal is struck that allows the furloughees who took jobs at 9L and 9E the ability to use their new number at that company, which would be date of hire since we were all hired after 7/1/10. I don't see how it is "fair and equitable" that right now I am senior to about 100+ guys at both 9L/9E and after SLI and I am forced to use my XJ number that practically overnight I will be junior to these guys I was just senior to the day before.

Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 944563)

If the agreement is followed and you were "hired at 9E/9L" AFTER 7-1-10 You would be BETTER off with your XJ furloughed hire date. The agreeement was that ANYONE hired ANYWHERE AFTER 7-1-10 would automatically be stapled by DOH after the last person from the merged lists hired BEFORE 7-1-10. So you should be no worse, and likely better off using your XJ seniority. Will the arbitrator agree since furloughs typically are thrown under the bus, have it back up and hit them again? Anyones guess. But the prelim. agreement was you would still be better in the merger using your XJ number pre purchase.

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944596)

I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944596)

I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

Originally Posted by CRJPlt (Post 944596)

I see what you are saying and that wouldn't be all bad, but I've heard (from a SLI committee member) that the furloughs stand a chance of being placed at the bottom of everyone hired prior to 7/1/10, and after the new hires are put in DOH since furloughs are considered inactive employees and pretty much as nobodys in a list. Don't know how this will shake out, but if it were to go this way I would hope I could resign from XJ or something to ensure I don't lose that much seniority

Originally Posted by SErickson (Post 944628)

From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.

Originally Posted by SErickson (Post 944628)

From the perspective of the respective Merger Committees, the seniority lists that are being integrated only include those hired before 7/1/10. When they speak of the 'bottom of the list', they are probably referencing the bottom of the list they are working on which would still be in front of everyone hired after 7/1/10. Integration of anyone hired after 7/1/10 is already resolved and it will be DOH across all carriers.

It is guaranteed that you will fair better with your furloughed Mesaba seniority regardless how the list turns out.

Originally Posted by donk74 (Post 945328)

Hey Scott Thanks for looking out for YOUR fellow Pinnacle Pilots (Sarcasm)!

Originally Posted by cencal83406 (Post 945436)

Sometimes people are bitter when they get fired for stealing and the union doesn't back them up.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 945439)

Ahhh, so not about XJ furloughs getting a fair deal, thank you.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 945439)

Ahhh, so not about XJ furloughs getting a fair deal, thank you.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 945439)

Ahhh, so not about XJ furloughs getting a fair deal, thank you.

Originally Posted by donk74 (Post 945581)

I think the Mesaba Furloughs are getting more than a fair deal, infact I think it will come at the expense of the bottom 100 at pinnacle (DOHs before 7/1/2010) with regards to SLI... While I agree with Mesaba pilots being offered a job at 9E while they were furloughed, but they should not be placed ahead of any active 9E pilot hired before 7/1/2010 during SLI. I feel that SE went out of his way to please ALPA National at the expense of his junior pilots.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 945589)

I don't agree, being furloughed or not should have no bearing on how someone is placed on a seniority list, especially in our case where none are going to remained furloughed.

If they were going to continue to have people on furlough I could see your argument, but the fact that we need pilots desperately negates that line of thought.

This is an equal merger and the XJ furloughs deserve to have their original XJ DOH considered in any SLI arrangement.

I don't think Scott took anyones side over another, it was the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by donk74 (Post 945596)

So you think that Mesaba furloughs should be placed ahead of Active Pinnacle pilots during SLI? Why? How is that fair to the active Pinnacle Pilots? Yes, this affects me personally, I was 50 from the bottom for years until the hiring started again.... I think we are just going to disageree on this issue as I dont believe you have a vested dog in the fight.

Originally Posted by SrfNFly227 (Post 945691)

Now I could be completely misunderstanding this process, but I don't think any furlough ends up above any active pilot. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the SLI look something like this:

1. All active pilots on 07/01/10 integrated with whatever method is chosen
2. All furloughed pilots on 07/01/10
3. All pilots hired after 07/01/10 based strictly on DOH

Of course, seeing as how this process is only just getting started, we could all be wrong.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 945702)

For everyone hired prior to 7-01-2010, all 3 lists are to be integrated with XJ furloughs keeping their original XJ hire date for SLI

(how the 3 lists are integrated is being negotiated between the 3 SLI committees now)

Everyone hired after 7-01-2010 is strictly DOH

Originally Posted by Imapilot2 (Post 945722)

Is this the way the sli is expected to go? DOH for everyone? Colgan, Pinnacle and Mesabah. Many have said no fences, so I would assume after the sli any opening on any ac(turboprop or jet) will be open to doh seniority bidding.

Originally Posted by donk74 (Post 945581)

While I agree with Mesaba pilots being offered a job at 9E while they were furloughed, but they should not be placed ahead of any active 9E pilot hired before 7/1/2010 during SLI. I feel that SE went out of his way to please ALPA National at the expense of his junior pilots.

Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 945810)

Cause everyone knows you guys are always out drinking scotch, smokin cubans on some TPC golf course somewhere. It would only make sense to continue that till retirement :)

Originally Posted by TristarJS30 (Post 945826)

Can anyone point me in the direction of where to look in the TA where it says we cannot be bumped from current seat/base during the SLI?

Originally Posted by higney85 (Post 945800)

Why does everyone think that guys have "eyes for national" just for doing a union position?

Originally Posted by SErickson (Post 945863)

To be correct, it says no bumping as a result of the SLI.

Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 946886)

Personally I think ANYONE hired before the merger (7-1-10) should be ahead of ANYONE after. Now are those of us here furloughed going to get a fair shake in that time frame, not likely. ( I was there myself during the BK time here) Now if they get thrown under the bus to hires after 7-1-10 at ANY company, then there is some serious lying and BS that I AM willing to fight on behalf of my fellow pilots. Those hired after that date were told and should know and expect to be merged behind ANY pilot hired at any of the 3 before that date.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 946893)

The MOU states that they keep their original XJ hire dates for SLI.

Originally Posted by PapaMike (Post 946987)

Does that apply only to those that took positions at colgan or pinnacle?

I'm not advocating that guys should necessarily be tossed behind the guys hired after july 1st but if they jumped ship to another carrier when they were furloughed and now see that they can come back and jump in front of hundreds of other guys it is a bit off in my book.

I kind of feel that the mou should only apply to those that took positions at colgan or pinnacle when offered and those who didnt should go to the back of the bus.

Originally Posted by Bartok (Post 947050)

They did not jump ship at all, they were offered to come back to Colgan or 9E and they would keep their original XJ seniority. That was the deal, not many would have done it without such a promise.

No wonder this industry is such crap, we can't even look out for each other, we try to take advantage of one another to suit our own selfish desires.

Originally Posted by SrfNFly227 (Post 947093)

First, I am not saying that I agree with him. But I think you misread his post.

I believe PapaMike is talking about a furloughed pilot who was offered employment at Pinnacle or Colgan, but ended up bypassing recall to go to another job somewhere else. That pilot "jumped ship," but would now be coming back with the original DOH and would be an almost instant line holder. Doesn't seem fair.

Again, I am not saying I agree with this, just saying how I read his post.

Originally Posted by SrfNFly227 (Post 947093)

First, I am not saying that I agree with him. But I think you misread his post.

I believe PapaMike is talking about a furloughed pilot who was offered employment at Pinnacle or Colgan, but ended up bypassing recall to go to another job somewhere else. That pilot "jumped ship," but would now be coming back with the original DOH and would be an almost instant line holder. Doesn't seem fair.

Again, I am not saying I agree with this, just saying how I read his post.