ExpressJet
 

ExpressJet has mins published at 500/100 and are showing that they are hiring 1-2 classes per month for the rest of the year. I have heard that they could be loosing some airplanes in the near future. Is this going to be putting the new hires in Jepordy, or do they have plans on getting those flights replaced with something else?

Also, are they being very strict with the 100 hour multi requirement?

thats the golden answer that noones knows, allthough they say not to worry they havent announced what they are doing with the planes yet

:rolleyes: just go work for mesa, you'll be better off

FWIW,
I would say the 100 Multi is quite firm. I interviewed at 93 Multi but:
1) I was on furlough from TSA
2) I already had time/training in the EMB-145
3) They told me to get to 100ME before class.

100 multi
 

Hey pal I applied to Expressjet 3 times and it took the 3rd time and a year at Colgan to get an interview, 1600ttl and 450 or so multi so don't feel bad if you don't get an intervie wwith 100 multi, although there were a lot of guys in my interview with just around 100, but they will not bend on that so don't say you have a 100 until you do!

Looks like I need to get the 100 multi before I start to worry about sending in a resume. I wish mulit time wasn't as hard to come by as it is...

I heard ExpressJet is done hiring for the rest of 2006.

you heard wrong

express
 

So they're not hiring for the rest of the year? Do you work for express smoke?

initally hiring was going to stop in aug but now they are hiring through feb 07

awac told classes in jan of last year they were running classes thru that time next year and they were expecting to hire another 300 pilots. They hired ~60 more, until march.

FYI. These things change. If XJT truly loses 69 planes you can bet they won't still be hiring. They'll be doing the opposite...

ok that's awac not xjt, don't forget they had to buy there flying and is xjt losing there airplanes NOOOO!!

Lemme guess, you were one of those in high school that thought that history classes were meaningless, aren't you?

The point of my post wasn't that XJT = AWAC, it was that things change. TSA hired people, put them thru classes, and then furloughed them after having done 3 trips. And if history is any indication, things WILL change at XJT.

When you say AWAC had to "buy" their flying do you realize the company has made almost $500 million in a year, since the deal went down? This had less to do with placing their jets vs. making money, it has an opportunity for the 6 owners to make a considerable amount of money for themselves. You gotta admit, it was pretty slick how they told UAL to go **** and then placed their planes with US Air and secured a seat on the board. Food for thought: the AWAC contract is STILL (even after concessions) superior to the XJT contract...which the XJT contract was based upon.

As far as XJT losing their planes, I don't believe ANYONE short of the board of directors at XJT know what is going to happen with the planes, and I'm not even convinced they know what's going on. I'm happy you are proud of your employer, just don't get TOO excited that your company is "the best". UAL was "the best" at one point, now look where they are.

P.S. I've quoted what you said so it is now in the anals of airlinepilotforums.net history.

oh no please don't quote me:eek:

wait a few months (when xjt furloughes), then you can eat crow...

will do! it's been fun ****ing you off :)

[QUOTE=fosters;60785] Food for thought: the AWAC contract is STILL (even after concessions) superior to the XJT contract...which the XJT contract was based upon.

I assure you that AWACs contract is not better then Express'. From the pay to the work rules and it wasn't even before your concessions.

If you guys are making so much money then why did you have to take concessions anyway and why haven't you got that money back?

Also it isn't cool to brag about other pilots potentially loosing flying.

Guys, arguing over regionals is like monkeys fighting over a banana. Doesn't matter at all. No one knows the future, though we all want to know whats gonna happen. Having been a furloughee from TSA it was quite surprising to us how fast things changed, but at XJT, the management has time and time again specifically said that they do not hire with any intention to furlough, it doesnt make good business sense.

I interviewed at both XJT and AWAC. Both are quality companies with good contracts and pilot groups but are in very different positions in terms of size and future. Ride the wave, watch and see. No one knows what will happen.

Well, you'll (hopefully) see what our old contract was like come october, when the arbitrator lets us know what has been implemented. It could be nothing, it could be all of it, we have to wait and see. I'm not holding out hope, but do wish it will return. I never worked under it (concessions were in 2003) but viewing just the old payrates FO's are bumped up around $5/hr and CA's around $10/hr, plus other work rule advances (like 3.5 trip rig vs. 4).

The company made all this money after concessions, the pilot group voted in concessions with the promise of an 11-year UAL contract. When it didn't happen, the company purchased 26% of US Air and placed their 70 RJ's with them. They received over 8,000,000 stock options @ $15/share and have progessively sold off that stock (latest was around 3 million shares @ $50/share). The pilot group sued the company to get the old contract back and it's now in arbitration.

Bragging about losing flying??? When did this happen. I never "bragged". Point me to where I bragged about XJT losing flying. I have 5 friends there, one is a CA, the others are FO's, whom are ex-coworkers. I'd never wish ill-will on them.

The point of my first post was take what the company says with a grain of salt. Just because they say classes will be run another 4-6 months doesn't mean it'll happen...(but what do I know, it'll NEVER happen to Express Jet). :rolleyes:

Comparing XJT with AWAC is apples to oranges. They are not even in the same league. XJT is an indepentant airline that flies coast to coast, all over Mexico and a good number of places in Canada. For all intents and purposes, AWAC is a niche carrier that is a subsidiary of US Airways. Losing 69 airplanes at XJT (assuming they were just gone and didn't find other work) isn't as significant as it would be at other regionals. What would AWAC look like if they lost 69 airplanes instead of XJT? Or TSA/GooJet? Or Mesaba? Or CHQ? Or PSA? Or Horizon? Or Colgan?

We wouldn't have any airplanes left at Horizon:eek:

Just because one is larger doesn't mean they are different. They are both subcontractors. XJT is publicly held, AWAC is a private company. They work based on a fee-for-departure type setup, which is wildly profitable for the regional carrier.

Maybe not from your standpoint, but to 2 of my friends its significant (who were recently hired). To the bottom 650-700 pilots it could suck (and have ramifications on the others, ie back to reserve, CAPT to FO, etc.).

Apparently those at XJT thing they are immune because their airline flies to all parts of the country and to mexico and canada. Maybe your company is immune because it's not a "niche" carrier (whatever that means)? Please. :rolleyes:

I sincerely hope your management is able to pull together a plan, we need as many good carriers in this business as we can get. But lets look at the track record here. All the "good" carriers are losing contracts, and the bottom feeders are picking up the slack (mesa, chq, go jets, etc.).

Keep in mind I'm very pessimistic (that way I'm never disappointed) and we'll all know how this plays out in the next few months, right? I thought I remember reading that chautauqua is placing their aircraft sometime starting in January? But if I were in the bottom 1/4 of ExpressJet's senority list I personally would be warming up the resume printer, but that's just me. Hell, even though I don't see a furlough in my immediate future I still am applying to other jobs to keep my hand in. You never know.

If I was number one at Express, I'd be sending out resumes. Who wants to stay there? Yes, I know, I worked there 9 years and was in the top 50. I stayed there 7 years longer than I expected. Express has peeked. I would not want to plan a career there. Do you think it will exist when you turn 60?

To OTTO
 

Very easy for you to sit there in the CAL 757/767 (Congrats by the way thats pretty badass) and say how Expressjet has peaked and everybody should leave there blah blah blah. I am going there in hopes of one day moving on to greener pastures but the time between then and now it makes sense to work for a regional that is considred one of the best isnt it? Nobody and I mean nobody (except for a select few) knows whats going on the the 69 a/c. When this info is made public than things may seem a little more concrete but the fact is that you can'y go from Instructing to CAL or any other major/national carrier until you do some time in the regionals so why not try to spend that time working for a good company making decent pay (I Know its low, but its one of the better payers in the regional ind.) would rather spend my time at XJT than at Colgan, Its not that Colgan was so bad, its just that 8 legs a day going to the same 3 airports gets very stale, as well as broken A/C, no perdiem, no contract etc.... (Is that better than no job at all, of course) but until Expressjet starts to furlough I am happy that I am making the move, and only time will tell if it is.............. Anyway just my own thoughts I know I am passing up an impending upgrade but 1,000PIC Turbine is not like the 100 multi as a CFI. :)

I wan't bad mouthing Express; its a great company. It HAS peaked. I'm am saying that the majors are better. If you have a choice of regionals to work for, choose Express. If you have a choice of leaving Express for a Major airline, do it. Express pilots should want to move on and up. I've talked to many Ex-Express guys that made it to Southwest and Airtran and they love it. Continental, Fedex, and UPS would be good too. Get your time and get out. Good luck.

Good point
 

I miss understood you :( I apalogize Good post by the way ;)

Economies of scale my man, economies of scale. The sunk cost (meaning overhead, facilities, training, etc) of operating 70 airplanes is not significantly less than operating 200 airplanes. But the oppurtunity for revenue is a lot greater.



I am one of the bottom 650-700 and I am not worried. Guess how much sleep I've lost over the 69 airplanes. If we get furloughed, we get furloughed. So what? But I am not going to worry about it till it happens. And you have no idea what it does for moral when you company gives the big ******* YOU their big airline partner when they ask for cost reductions. How many other companies would say "yeah, we'll try and do it cheaper but not at the expense of our employees?" If I am furloughed in January, I will have enjoyed the ride, I'll dust off the resume and move on.

And niche carrier means that you have a closely defined, specific purpose, but you do it well. Similar to a Horizon or Skyway-type airline. Look it up.

Sorry to hear you are so pessimistic. Hope its not too hard to enjoy life when the sky is always falling. Ive always found that flexibility beats pessimism any day of the week.

I think you need to step away from the kool aid. xjt and awac are the exact same type of company except that xjt is bigger right now.

you think having 25% of your guaranteed flying taken away isn't that significant, wow. remember that continental could only take away 25% and probably would have taken more if they could. in another 3 years they can take some more again.

With that reasoning you should have been able to keep your costs down enough so that Republic didn't win the RFP for CAL's flying. Republic has a total of 157 airplanes on property, you have 274. That's 74% more airplanes. Economies of scale didn't help you on the Midwest flying (it had nothing to do with cost in your case). The delta flying is up for grabs though. If you keep the airplanes in the states, that's where my money is going right now. But I ain't buying any XJT stock :).

That's great for you. Now imagine all the people coming on board that move to base, have a family, etc. Do you think they'll just be able to "move on"? What if you have a mortage? Defaulting sucks.

I seem to remember two who did that. AWAC was one. The other was ACA aka Indepence Air. We all know how that turned out.

If it helps you sleep at night to call horizon and awac a niche carrier go for it. Make sure you refer to yourself as a "major" pilot because you company brings in over $1bil in revenue while you're at it :rolleyes:.

We all do the same thing, we operate on a fee-for-departure setup where our income is guaranteed. Big or small, that's the way our companies make their money. Same concept.

Horizon, to my understanding, shares in the expenses of its routes. Great Lakes (while small) also does this while operating a code share with United. Same with regions air (under its EAS routes), but I believe they are an American connection carrier and soon to be continental.

Dude it's great. Never being disappointed allows you to always be happy with what you have :).

That being said, do I honestly think XJT will have to sublease those aircraft? I really don't know. I know the management team at XJT is top notch, they are a good company with great statistics (one time zero zero, completion, mx, etc.). BUT, if I was a CFI looking to go somewhere, I WOULD NOT chose XJT based on the fact that the company *most likely* isn't poised to grow any time soon. No growth and low attrition (because XJT is a good carrier) = LONG upgrade time and a long time at the bottom of 2500+ pilot group list. Ask a 3 year eagle FO how he likes being on reserve still.

Who knows, they could be the next skywest, and take over the world. But you'll have to get 70 and 90 seaters first. The 50 (and less) seat market is saturated.

Otto
 

In many respects I agree with you. Making a career at a regional is not ideal and likely not what people had in mind when entering this career path. However, when going through training I met more than a few sim instructors that plan to stay for various reasons. But the Primary reason I found was this:

They got here, things were flowing good, then the 9/11 slow down held them here 3-5 years extra before they had the times to move to CAL, SWA, UPS, FDX etc. Now they look to make the move.... At XJT they are pushing $100k with a schedule they can basically choose, and NO real chance of furlough. A very stable/decent living and having a nice schedule is a bonus too.

To give that up for: Bottom of the seniority list, basically 5-10 years of a pay cut, reserve, etc is a tough life choice to make if you have purchased a home or started a real life. Not to mention if the major "slows down" or worse yet furloughs....You are the first to go.

To some I think its purely the money. (arbitrary number but you get the idea)
XJT:100k for 3 years = 300k.

MAJOR:
yr 1= 30k
yr2= 50k
yr3= 70k
3yrs = 150k.... It takes a while to recoup this money.

If people are mid 30's or 40, the time it takes to recoup the initial cost takes most of their under 60 years. It depends on what you are looking for and where you want to end up. To each his/her own.

Exactly how did this turn into an Air Wisconsin vs. Expressjet fight?

The fact is if AWAC gets the 9/11 contract back, it will be better than Expressjet's current contract. If we don't, then contract we are working under now is Top 3 if not right behind XJT's.

AWAC got a good raise in March based in part on XJT's CA payrates. I say thank you for that! Regardless of what happens, I've heard XJT has a MUCH better trip trade/drop/swap system...and anything has got to be better than the piece of sh!t subject-to-screw-sked system AWAC is operating under.

Some of you new XJT FOs need to step away from the koolaid for a second and look at the big picture and last 5 years in United Express history. Air Wisconsin went from flying CRJs, Dorniers & 146s in DEN & ORD in 2002 to 70 CRJs for Airways on the east coast, killing the QOL of everybody on property and effectively causing more than 25% attrition in less than 12 months.

You guys flying an XR doesn't mean sh!t because its still a 50 seat airplane, and there are too many of them right now. XJT is a good place to be, a great airline and great company to work for...but unfortunately CAL put its bullseye squarely on you, just like UAL did with ACA then Air Wisconsin, and DAL is doing with Comair right now.

I have a few friends at XJT, U-I Pilot among them. I don't wish ill on you guys or anybody, and whatever happens, I hope nobody anywhere loses their jobs or gets downgraded.

Good luck to us all, and cut out this piddly infighting, sounding like a bunch of ****ed off schoolgirls fighting over a boy or something...

1 a fellow awac pilot brought the whole 69 airplane crap thing up.

2do awac's pilots have a copy of xjt's contract to compare??

3 who's new??

4 who said anything about XR's?? maybe i missed that?? they are cool looking though and nicer inside

Hehe.. so true! So true! :D

That's because XJT stands to lose a quarter of its fleet and as of yet has not formally announced what they are doing with them. No furloughs are planned and hiring is continuing and that is GREAT...but its only due diligance to consider the what the loss of those aircraft means.

Yes, actually I do have a pdf copy of XJT's 2004 CBA - courtesy of XJT's NC Chair himself. It is an excellent contract, very well-rounded providing the highest W2s for 50 seat aircraft. If AWAC gets its 9/11 contract back, with its hourly rates and workrules, we will have the highest W2s. Not that it matters, cuz you won't hear anybody saying "mine is better than yours"...a rising tide lifts all ships. Its just a simple fact.

Like I said, this ain't an XJT vs. AWAC thing...quit making it into one.

that last line was not necessary.

i'm just simply responding to what others say :)

XJT vs AWAC
 

Both are top notch airlines, it should be XJT & AWAC vs MESA & BLOWJETS :)

I would love to see your face when the day comes and you need a ride somewhere and the only flight you can get to jumpseat on it a Mesa or Gojet flight.

hahah
 

hahahah just cause I Don't like em doesnt mean I would'nt give them a ride, I would hope they would feel the same

I don't like 'em, and I would NOT give them a ride.

Mesa, GoJet, or both??