Getting back original longevity date at ASA
05-09-2011 | 05:46 PM
#11
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined: Dec 2007
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What service did you provide ASA for those years?
You didn't provide any, you were unemployed. You qualified for unemployment, you were paid out your vacation balance, you got a packet in the mail to enroll in COBRA coverage. The only thing existing between you and ASA during that time was an agreement not to hire anyone else until you were brought back. If you don't think the contract is fair you should have applied somewhere else or worked to change it while you were on property (I assume you're working on getting it changed now?).
Just my thoughts after 25 months on furlough.
You didn't provide any, you were unemployed. You qualified for unemployment, you were paid out your vacation balance, you got a packet in the mail to enroll in COBRA coverage. The only thing existing between you and ASA during that time was an agreement not to hire anyone else until you were brought back. If you don't think the contract is fair you should have applied somewhere else or worked to change it while you were on property (I assume you're working on getting it changed now?).
Just my thoughts after 25 months on furlough.
05-09-2011 | 06:56 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 419
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From: CRJ
What service did you provide ASA for those years?
You didn't provide any, you were unemployed. You qualified for unemployment, you were paid out your vacation balance, you got a packet in the mail to enroll in COBRA coverage. The only thing existing between you and ASA during that time was an agreement not to hire anyone else until you were brought back. If you don't think the contract is fair you should have applied somewhere else or worked to change it while you were on property (I assume you're working on getting it changed now?).
Just my thoughts after 25 months on furlough.
You didn't provide any, you were unemployed. You qualified for unemployment, you were paid out your vacation balance, you got a packet in the mail to enroll in COBRA coverage. The only thing existing between you and ASA during that time was an agreement not to hire anyone else until you were brought back. If you don't think the contract is fair you should have applied somewhere else or worked to change it while you were on property (I assume you're working on getting it changed now?).
Just my thoughts after 25 months on furlough.
In all honesty I did not (nor know of anyone who does) know, or care, about the furlough language in the contract at the time I got hired. Maybe thats something I will look for if I ever go somewhere else. Do you really think I would have passed up ASA just based on the furlough language anyway? I've never heard of that being a reason why someone passed up a job up. Unless you know someone who works there, how can you get a copy of a contract for a company you don't work for? The contract we are under now was signed before I was hired, so I had no say in it. Thats why I put this thread on here to try to get it changed. I have already contact our MEC.
05-10-2011 | 01:09 PM
#13
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Right I didn't provide any service. Not saying that I should have been paid while on furlough. Just that I don't think its fair that I am on second year pay. Just how I feel. The probability of getting back is probably zero anyway, but figured it doesn't hurt to ask.
In all honesty I did not (nor know of anyone who does) know, or care, about the furlough language in the contract at the time I got hired. Maybe thats something I will look for if I ever go somewhere else. Do you really think I would have passed up ASA just based on the furlough language anyway? I've never heard of that being a reason why someone passed up a job up. Unless you know someone who works there, how can you get a copy of a contract for a company you don't work for? The contract we are under now was signed before I was hired, so I had no say in it. Thats why I put this thread on here to try to get it changed. I have already contact our MEC.
In all honesty I did not (nor know of anyone who does) know, or care, about the furlough language in the contract at the time I got hired. Maybe thats something I will look for if I ever go somewhere else. Do you really think I would have passed up ASA just based on the furlough language anyway? I've never heard of that being a reason why someone passed up a job up. Unless you know someone who works there, how can you get a copy of a contract for a company you don't work for? The contract we are under now was signed before I was hired, so I had no say in it. Thats why I put this thread on here to try to get it changed. I have already contact our MEC.
Additionally, although many of the majors don't have it in the contract, most have negotiated (AA, UAL) for it in the past when their furloughs have returned at least in the past. Not sure if the MEC's at UAL or AA are concerned at this time with their furloughees.
05-10-2011 | 04:09 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: e190
The language you are talking about would be an excellent idea. IF CAL had this language those 175 furloughs from 2008 would probably have never happened. It would prevent managements from taking hostages during negotiations.
05-10-2011 | 04:34 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Piloto
Anyone who say's the no-furlough clause is worthless needs to wake up and smell the coffee... Before you hit the quote button, YES I know there are way's around the no-furlough clause. They could just do it and face the consequences later on (especially if it is still worth it financially), they could claim bankruptcy, etc... But the current clause has already locked the company from doing more furlough's in recent past, and limiting how the pilots are treated. And isn't that what contracts are all about in the first place?
05-10-2011 | 05:46 PM
#16
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I was one of the first 80 furloughed from ASA back in FEB of 09. I believe the final furlough number was 136. Our contract states that our longevity dates will be adjusted to return us to our previous pay schedule. I realize that that is what our contract says, however I don't think its fair. I do not know if this is an industry standard thing or what, so someone maybe can fill me in there. So, the rest of the time I am here, along with everyone else who was furloughed, we will not be getting the hourly rate we deserve. I was hired in March of 08, not Sept. of 09, I and others should be getting be getting 4th year pay, not second. I realize the difference is only a few dollars an hour, but I don't think I need to tell you how much every little bit helps. And the principle of it that we are not getting paid what we deserve.
I have contacted our MEC and he was very happy to answer my question and responded to my email very quickly via a phone call. After a lengthy conversation, his response was that he agrees that its not fair and will bring it up in negotiations; but wither or not he can get it done is another is another story. He also encouraged me to contact my rep. Being that we are up for a new contract and have a very small chance (probably none in reality) of getting it back, I figured it might be worth a try.
I'm a realest and know that any chance of us getting our original longevity date back is probably zero. Also, that the majority of the pilot group is more of a concern for our MEC than a small minority. I also would never want this back if it means that the other majority of our group would have to suffer in some way because of it (and no one would vote yes for that anyway).
So, I know I have to accept that its just the way it is and live with it. But I wanted to put this out there and see what kind of responses I would get. Also, I want to encourage the other furloughees to contact our rep and tell him you want this changed. Its worth a shot, and if it doesn't happen (which it probably won't), then so be it. At least we tried.
I have contacted our MEC and he was very happy to answer my question and responded to my email very quickly via a phone call. After a lengthy conversation, his response was that he agrees that its not fair and will bring it up in negotiations; but wither or not he can get it done is another is another story. He also encouraged me to contact my rep. Being that we are up for a new contract and have a very small chance (probably none in reality) of getting it back, I figured it might be worth a try.
I'm a realest and know that any chance of us getting our original longevity date back is probably zero. Also, that the majority of the pilot group is more of a concern for our MEC than a small minority. I also would never want this back if it means that the other majority of our group would have to suffer in some way because of it (and no one would vote yes for that anyway).
So, I know I have to accept that its just the way it is and live with it. But I wanted to put this out there and see what kind of responses I would get. Also, I want to encourage the other furloughees to contact our rep and tell him you want this changed. Its worth a shot, and if it doesn't happen (which it probably won't), then so be it. At least we tried.
05-10-2011 | 06:36 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 337
Likes: 31
For the duration of this Agreement, notwithstanding the provisions of Section 23
and the provisions of paragraph 1.E.4.. above, the Company will not furloughany pilot whose name is on the seniority list on the effective date of thisAgreement except in circumstances over which the Company has no control.The term “circumstances over which the Company has no control” includes, butis not limited to, a natural disaster; grounding of a substantial number of theCompany’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operationsbecause of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical material due toeither governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to providesufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations;revocation of the Company’s operating certificate; war emergency; owner’sdelay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery; or manufacturer’s delay indelivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery. The term “circumstances over which the Company has no control” will not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then current operations.
Sure the company could get around it if they tried hard enough and the union rolled over, but that's some pretty good wording in my opinion.
Sure the company could get around it if they tried hard enough and the union rolled over, but that's some pretty good wording in my opinion.
05-11-2011 | 11:20 AM
#18
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: CRJ
Ha I was wondering when someone would say this. No, I've always been ticked about this. Since we are up working on a new contract now, thought maybe it would the time to speak up.
05-11-2011 | 11:40 AM
#19
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
What service did you provide ASA for those years?
You didn't provide any, you were unemployed. ... If you don't think the contract is fair you should have applied somewhere else or worked to change it while you were on property (I assume you're working on getting it changed now?).
Just my thoughts after 25 months on furlough.
You didn't provide any, you were unemployed. ... If you don't think the contract is fair you should have applied somewhere else or worked to change it while you were on property (I assume you're working on getting it changed now?).
Just my thoughts after 25 months on furlough.
- Was his furlough voluntary?
- Were pilots with less longevity employed doing "his" work while he was involuntarily on furlough?
When I worked for ASA (& the reason I left) was that we were punished for holding firm to our demand for a better contract. Our 900's and some 700's were diverted to SkyWest. ASA pilots were demoted (as they were already on the Certificate and staffing for the new jets when the Company engaged in immoral activity).
The term "immoral" is justified. If ALPA had staged "self help" in the form of a strike, or suspension of service, pilots would have gone to jail and ALPA would have been fined. SkyWest engaged in self help without repercussion.
So yeah, I think he's right to direct his LEC to push his MEC to make him whole. He should write a resolution and get it passed at his next LEC meeting. He's got some good folks providing representation at ASA ... put them to work.
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