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-   -   ASA PBS Awards.......... (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/59504-asa-pbs-awards.html)

cessna157 05-24-2011 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by PeezDog (Post 997799)
As was warned by all of our fellow pilots from other airlines, PBS sucks. In theory it is a great system, but it allows the company too many loopholes and tools to abuse the system and screw us all over. The union promised us that what we agreed on in the LOA was so awesome and was going to be the smoothest, best running PBS out there. Dead wrong. So I for one, am voting no on any contract that has PBS in it, and don't trust anything the union says. Just got the we're sorry email from them. Grow a pair and do something to fix this. As long as we have PBS and the standard under staffing issues, which will not change because we are always "properly staffed", this will continue. The only way to stop it is to vote out PBS. My 2 cents.


I came from another airline that had PBS and it worked perfectly for me. Granted, I was on reserve my entire career there, but I got exactly what I wanted every month, occasionally +/- a day.

PBS is a learning curve for everyone, from the bidder, to the union, to the company. It will take a while for each party to get their own preferences hammered out. Sure, we'd all like to have exactly what we want, but only a fool would expect that.

If you see that you're consistently getting all of the wrong stuff, and other people are consistently getting all of the right stuff, change your bidding ways. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. They're just doing it better.

Just give it time folks

unit monster 05-24-2011 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by afterburn81 (Post 997644)
How long have you been at ASA? I'm about 59% on the 700. Used to have a great sked. I'm a weekend guy. Hate working weekends. Never had to worry about it. PBS took that away after almost 5 years. Guess that's bye bye to holidays too.

And yes, I know how to bid. Got it set up the best that it can be.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but 59% would be a March 07 hire...

Trip7 05-24-2011 02:29 PM


Originally Posted by afterburn81 (Post 997644)
How long have you been at ASA? I'm about 59% on the 700. Used to have a great sked. I'm a weekend guy. Hate working weekends. Never had to worry about it. PBS took that away after almost 5 years. Guess that's bye bye to holidays too.

And yes, I know how to bid. Got it set up the best that it can be.

PBS didn't take it away. The fact that 60 crews of 700/900 flying went up to DTW took it away. ATL 700/900 will be very senior for the foreseeable future. 2007 hires are on reserve.......

squaretail 05-26-2011 04:13 PM


From ASA ALPO: In reviewing our open time process, the Company and ALPA have agreed to shift the Open Time bidding windows for June. We are doing this in response to the excessive amount of open time this month in most positions. We anticipate this will help minimize junior manning and extensions.
Ohhh, so that's what happened to my line... it ended up in open time... THANKS ALPA!!

weak... ultra weak. Hey, but at least we don't have to worry about our onion getting along with (or taking it in the trunk from) our company.

surreal1221 05-26-2011 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by squaretail (Post 999132)
Ohhh, so that's what happened to my line... it ended up in open time... THANKS ALPA!!

weak... ultra weak. Hey, but at least we don't have to worry about our onion getting along with (or taking it in the trunk from) our company.

Have you contacted one of your status reps, or someone on the PWG?

squaretail 05-26-2011 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by surreal1221 (Post 999133)
Have you contacted one of your status reps, or someone on the PWG?

Nope... why would they care? I'm just a reserve and ASA ALPA has made it very clear they don't care about reserve pilots. Not to mention, even if they did it would not change a thing - you think they will waste their time grieving it? And whose purpose would that serve, it won't get a line for those that should have had one.

surreal1221 05-26-2011 04:34 PM


Originally Posted by squaretail (Post 999143)
Nope... why would they care? I'm just a reserve and ASA ALPA has made it very clear they don't care about reserve pilots. Not to mention, even if they did it would not change a thing - you think they will waste their time grieving it? And whose purpose would that serve, it won't get a line for those that should have had one.

And here I was thinking it may serve the purpose of actually getting a decent understanding of WHAT specifically - with your bid - and those in your same relative position - happened, what the numbers were, and WHY - in the end, you're left unsatisfied.

Look...if you don't reach out to these guys, they have no idea what it is they need to fix going forward. So, I'll ask kindly, send your status rep an e-mail or pick up the phone and give them a call and give them an earful. Doing it here won't help the greater cause. I've been quite happy with the information I've received from all involved in the process and it's certainly helped increase my knowledge of the process and the elements (both from within the Association and Company) that can impact the results.

Perhaps if you're not willing to make a phone call or send an e-mail to one of your status reps (why you're unwilling, I'll never know..) perhaps you should reach out to one of the guys on the reserve sub-committee and give them an earful.

You have volunteers working on your behalf, I'd suggest using them. Otherwise, this endless circle of internet diatribes accomplishes nothing and you're still left just as unsatisfied.

squaretail 05-26-2011 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by surreal1221 (Post 999146)
And here I was thinking it may serve the purpose of actually getting a decent understanding of WHAT specifically - with your bid - and those in your same relative position - happened, what the numbers were, and WHY - in the end, you're left unsatisfied.


My bid... it's pretty simple, AWARD ALL PAIRINGS BEFORE RESERVE.

I'm sorry, I am really not trying to be derisive, but when there is so much open time that a special procedure has to be implemented -- and close to 30+ lines that were forecast in the original bid package were withheld, you have to start putting 2 and 2 together here... I will spell it out for you... the company decided to make more reserves than they originally planned on. So, 10 more reserves for a domicile with 65 reserves in the largest category seat is a sizable increase. Thirty is HUGE. That is 150% of the forecast reserve lines. Again, we have a lot of open time. Do you think they could not have worked out a few more lines??

Go two pages back another poster said this:


Originally Posted by pkunzip66 (Post 996600)
What does it matter...PBS is nothing but a way to make you work more for less. So much for predicting 363 lines for the CRJ fo and I am around the mid 330's and yet still have rsv next month. I have lost all motivation for this place. Weak language of a contract and now same weak language trickles down to the PBS loa since the union won't do sh!t about it being late but a "I'm sorry" letter.

straight forward, in my opinion.

surreal1221 05-26-2011 05:49 PM

I, personally, take issue that bids open on the tenth, close on the 14th, and awards can't even be out until beyond the 20th...leaving VERY little room to fix problems found during the award process - or even during the bid process.

I've made my issue with that known to those I'm close to.

However, like I said man, the folks who are volunteering on your behalf need to know your concerns. I'm not trying be firm on this, but the reality is that our pilot group is some of the most passive pilots when it comes to actually picking up their phones or sending an e-mail out to their elected representatives. A great deal of work is being done to improve on this, but your MEC can only make new forms of communication tools available to the pilot group...that if the actual pilots don't take advantage of them, then what good has that work accomplished?

In the end, the Association can only work within the boundaries the Company's crew planners (KH and team) have established. It should be made perfectly clear that the Association's PWG spent A GREAT deal of time trying to find the best solution for EVERYONE. Sure, some made out better, and some made out worse.

I knew from the first month snafu with PBS that the Association would have to step in for MANY months to come. Problems will continue to come up. Issues will still develop, and personally - I feel a large part of it is the timeline we are working in, from bid to award, and finally reserve additional days off bidding and awards. However, I made a few phone calls, spent some time looking over the data and came away with a much better understanding of what has happened, and can possibly happen during the whole process.

So hey...I can only suggest it to you once again. Not in a cynical nature, but in an honest to goodness - pilot to pilot - discussion. Pick up your phone, open up your e-mail, and reach out to a few folks who might be able to shed some light on WHY reserve staffing is up, and who is responsible for that decision...and how that decision was reached, and WHY it was reached.

Otherwise, you'll never know. Only an idea my friend. Take it if you want, but the door is wide open...and the phone numbers and e-mail addresses are out there for you to use. It's up to you to actually reach on out and get the information you really need.

When I'm ****ed about something at this Company, I can only run around in circles so many times before I need to sit down and get a better understanding of WHY. I have no reservations about calling my elected representatives or volunteers and putting them on the spot as necessary. You shouldn't either. :)

Good luck. Maybe next month will be better for you. Equipment and seat though? I'm a fairly junior CR2 FO and have been able to be quite happy with my PBS awards over the past few months...and haven't ever had to rely on Select All Remaining Pairings to build me a regular line.

squaretail 05-26-2011 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by surreal1221 (Post 999177)
So hey...I can only suggest it to you once again. Not in a cynical nature, but in an honest to goodness - pilot to pilot - discussion. Pick up your phone, open up your e-mail, and reach out to a few folks who might be able to shed some light on WHY reserve staffing is up, and who is responsible for that decision...and how that decision was reached, and WHY it was reached.

Look -- I have no beef with you personally here, but you have a problem with the bid schedule?? Cush being a line-holder, eh? Getting your schedule on the 20th and being ticked about it... aww, so rough, I'm sorry for you.

I have no illusions as to why the company wanted to create more reserves. Re-read my original post -- it's right there. The company wants the flexibility to screw with more pilots' schedules -- summer is here, vacation time, sudden increase in block hours, thunderstorms, sickation... etc. I know WHY the decision was reached... sorry but this ain't my first rodeo. I hardly need light shed on that little bit of drama.

What is telling is that the union puts into that email, "We anticipate this will help minimize junior manning and extensions."

Now, really -- you want to tell me the union cares about reserves and/or will do ANYTHING different going forward?


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