Calling all Captains to support 1500 hours
07-07-2011 | 12:33 PM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
I disagree with him too. Training of military pilots is generally more standardized than civilian training, plus they do some unique things that civilian counterparts don't do...low level, formation, aerobatics, basic fighter maneuvers, bomb-dropping, etc... But in terms of getting passengers safely from A to B it's the same.
CAPT Al Haynes of UA 232, the Sioux City DC-10 mishap, had 8 years in the Marine Corps; CAPT Sully Sullenberger of USAir 1549 in the Hudson had 7 years military experience in the Air Force...both of these had some military experience, but the vast majority of their flying careers were as civilians before these major mishaps occurred that they successfully faced.
The more time I spend with Delta (and former NWA) Captains, the more I benefit from their advice & experience, whether they come civilian or military backgrounds.
CAPT Al Haynes of UA 232, the Sioux City DC-10 mishap, had 8 years in the Marine Corps; CAPT Sully Sullenberger of USAir 1549 in the Hudson had 7 years military experience in the Air Force...both of these had some military experience, but the vast majority of their flying careers were as civilians before these major mishaps occurred that they successfully faced.
The more time I spend with Delta (and former NWA) Captains, the more I benefit from their advice & experience, whether they come civilian or military backgrounds.
FWIW, personally, when I came back to UAL from furlough #1 and SUPT I found my airline skillset much sharper. I felt more comfortable clicking everything off and hand-flying difficult approaches/landings into ORD/LGA for example and noticed, for the first time, how many 100% civilian captains who liked to hide behind the automation and just be managers. Now I'm not saying they were horrible pilots, in fact I've learned much from them throughout my career. Military training tends to make one more confident because you have done things with airplanes civilians have not done. I consider it a realy blessing to have gotten to go to SUPT in my ripe age because it really challenged and expanded upon my already established skillset.
No new simulator or highly marketd "airline pilot" class (while perhaps beneficial in some ways) at Riddle can come close. Absent of this, IMHO, you only become a better pilot with experience and continuing to challenge yourself and stay in the books. So the comparison of low-time military pilots to civilian pilots in context with the 1500 hour requirement is really a moot point.
My 2 cents-
KC
Last edited by kc135driver; 07-07-2011 at 12:37 PM. Reason: I don't have a degree in spelling!
07-09-2011 | 04:15 PM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
It absolutely would. As would teaching approaches in IMC, getting into ice & already knowing how to get out, and talking to FSS en route in order to make it around thunderstorms.
It's called gaining situational awareness. Unfortunately, Mr. Renslow lacked SA on that fateful evening. So did the pilots if AF 447. Both of those PIC's came from a non CFI environment. Our hands get held in the US 121 environment, but not in the Part 91 environment. Flight Instruction taught me an incredible amount of situational awareness.
It's called gaining situational awareness. Unfortunately, Mr. Renslow lacked SA on that fateful evening. So did the pilots if AF 447. Both of those PIC's came from a non CFI environment. Our hands get held in the US 121 environment, but not in the Part 91 environment. Flight Instruction taught me an incredible amount of situational awareness.
07-09-2011 | 05:00 PM
#184
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Actually, if what he is saying is that SUPT produces far superior pilots than any part 141 school (including Riddle, SIU, etc.), I would agree. Before this turns into a test of ego's, I orginally got all my ratings via Riddle and years later went to AF SUPT. There is a reason the military has been able to produce fighter pilots with 200-300 hours and civilian pilots with hundreds of hours often struggle in UPT. It is much harder.
Now what I am not saying is that each and every military pilot is better than each and every civilian pilot. I'm talking coming right out of the pipeline, after that mileage will vary and anybody can become a mediocre pilot at anytime any career if they choose to let their skills deplete. Also, there are some things civilian pilots do better than military pilots, and vice-versa. But overall, unless you have more any more anecdotal evidence then "I flew with this military/civilian pilot and they sucked", you really should keep your opinion to yourself.
KC
Now what I am not saying is that each and every military pilot is better than each and every civilian pilot. I'm talking coming right out of the pipeline, after that mileage will vary and anybody can become a mediocre pilot at anytime any career if they choose to let their skills deplete. Also, there are some things civilian pilots do better than military pilots, and vice-versa. But overall, unless you have more any more anecdotal evidence then "I flew with this military/civilian pilot and they sucked", you really should keep your opinion to yourself.
KC
Also, a brand new SUPT trainee has no flying skills at all. It's like teaching a new born, as in they know no different. A civilian with hundreds of hours has their own techniques, limitations, and methods of doing things. Are you left handed? Try writing with your right hand. It's hard to break patterns and techniques and do things the way the military wants it. A clean slate makes it easier to learn.
07-09-2011 | 05:01 PM
#185
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
07-10-2011 | 02:04 AM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
07-10-2011 | 10:56 AM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Re-read his post, & then think about what you wrote.
Also, a brand new SUPT trainee has no flying skills at all. It's like teaching a new born, as in they know no different. A civilian with hundreds of hours has their own techniques, limitations, and methods of doing things. Are you left handed? Try writing with your right hand. It's hard to break patterns and techniques and do things the way the military wants it. A clean slate makes it easier to learn.
Also, a brand new SUPT trainee has no flying skills at all. It's like teaching a new born, as in they know no different. A civilian with hundreds of hours has their own techniques, limitations, and methods of doing things. Are you left handed? Try writing with your right hand. It's hard to break patterns and techniques and do things the way the military wants it. A clean slate makes it easier to learn.
KC
07-10-2011 | 11:37 AM
#190
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Well...then again if he's getting the **** kicked out of him maybe he doesn't actually know how to use the radar properly. From my experience very few do.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
