Phone call: Alpa to eagle pilots
 

I have never received an automated message from ALPA. The message mentioned: "grievance; Career progression; Eagle aircraft transitioning to AA?" My friends called me to ask if I got the call and I thought they were messing with me. But when I was talking to them, I received the call.

Something is happening to Eagle this week and our Union isnt informing us.

Anyone know more? Doesn't sound good...

Well the message did mention "greatly enhanced career progression for Eagle Pilots." Whatever that means.

Well here are some possibilities I heard. In the airline pilot world we tend to call them RUMORS.

1.) AA was trying to take our airplanes and we won that grievance.

2.) All parties involved are now looking into one seniority list and that would explain our career progression??

A lot of people are talking about scenario # 2. This is going to get interesting...

Agreed...thats what I have been hearing. Union has been very--ODDLY--quiet the last month or two... Right seat in A320-Neo's very soon. ;)

Docs are posted on Eagle ALPA site now.

Not sure I would say something IS happening to eagle. It (the phone call) mentioned the grievance over placing the aircraft with a holding company. Which is a back door way of "selling" your equipment. The companies involved then turn around and "lease" their own equipment back.

To me it was not clear if alpa won the grievance or not. I hope so

What did it say??

I am still reading four documents..... but thus far....

1.Every American Eagle pilot who is on the American Eagle pilot seniority list as of October 11, 2011 will be offered a job as an American Airlines pilot in the future.
2. American Eagle pilots hired under this settlement agreement will not be subjected to a pre-employment interview or pre-employment medical examination prior to transferring to American Airlines.
3. American Eagle pilots will be offered a minimum of 35% of every American Airlines new-hire class. In the event that 35% of American Airlines’ new hire class is greater than 25 pilots per month, American Eagle will be required to release at least 25 Eagle pilots per month.

Wow...just wow...need more deets!

This combined with the "big fleet order announcement" rumored for AA tomorrow and one has to wonder exactly what AMR has up their sleeves...

A friend gave me this...

1. Every American Eagle pilot who is on the American Eagle pilot seniority list as of October 11, 2011 will be offered a job as an American Airlines pilot in the future.

2. American Eagle pilots hired under this settlement agreement will not be subjected to a pre-employment interview or pre-employment medical examination prior to transferring to American Airlines.

3. American Eagle pilots will be offered a minimum of 35% of every American Airlines new-hire class. In the event that 35% of American Airlines’ new hire class is greater than 25 pilots per month, American Eagle will be required to release at least 25 Eagle pilots per month.

4. If American Eagle loses flying and such loss results in a furlough, American Airlines will increase the percentage of Eagle pilots in their new-hire classes to a minimum of 50%. The meter above will continue to apply.

5. If American Eagle loses flying and such loss might result in a furlough, American Airlines will also attempt to negotiate preferential interviews for American Eagle pilots at the carrier who has successfully bid for the flying that Eagle is losing.

6. This settlement does not impact the existing rights of American Eagle flow-through pilots who currently possess American Airlines pilot seniority numbers, or the rights of the 824 pilot positions awarded as remedy by Arbitrator Nicolau. Those provisions are in place and will remain effective without regard to this settlement agreement.

7. American Eagle has agreed to clarifying contract language regarding the scope of work that American Eagle pilots perform in the event of a divestiture.

Just not to sure I would get to excited yet. It sounds like it is possible we could lose planes and pilots!

basically we have 5 years till either this new company we hope is profitable or hope to god we are to American, otherwise hope your wife/hub has a good job!

TRUE...

"it would not stop the transfer of ownership of Eagle’s aircraft to AA, nor would it stop the transfer of Eagle’s flight operations to other feed operators. What it would require is that pursuant to Section 1 of our collective bargaining agreement, Eagle pilots and the Eagle contract would have to transfer with aircraft to the other feed operator. For example, if AA were to outsource some of Eagle’s current flying to Mesa Airlines, the number of Eagle pilots required to staff those aircraft and contract would go with the aircraft to Mesa Airlines and be employed at that carrier with a five year window during which they could elect to transfer back to Eagle. In the end, though, the flying would leave American Eagle. This grievance was about pilot jobs, not the transfer of assets."

Other aspect is, APA hasnt said anything about this yet. So wait for that to put a spin on things...

American to Split Aircraft Order: Report - TheStreet
"... and announce the sale of American Eagle, the newspaper said."

Who is buying American Eagle?

sounds like speculative journalism.

Look for "assets only" sale of Eagle to SkyWest to be announced very soon. Pilots will continue to fly the airplanes until AA sucks them up.

DALPA and UALCALPA, time to step up to the plate!

and Skywest pilots fill the seats as the Eagle pilots leave?

Not according to the grievance agreement. Eagle pilots go with the planes for 5 years and then come back to Eagle....

After that who knows...

At its current rate of retirements, will it take AA less than 5 years to hire every Eagle pilot?

I was told AE has 2900 pilots. At 35% of each new hire AA class , it would mean AA had to hire 8285 pilots to absorb all 2900 at the 35% ratio.( I know, I shouldn't do math in public).
I seriously doubt AA could do that in 5 years.
However , with an average pilot age of about 50 at AA, it might not be that much more then 5-10 years to go through the whole AE list.

AMERICAN EAGLE MASTER EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
150 WESTPARK WAY, SUITE 130 | EULESS, TEXAS 76040 | 817-685-7474 | FAX 817-685-9797
July 19, 2011
Fellow American Eagle pilots:
On January 26, 2011, the MEC filed a grievance over AMRs plan to transfer the ownership of Eagles aircraft to AMR in anticipation of the possible divestiture of American Eagle from AMR.
AMRs stated desire was to own these aircraft for a number of reasons, not the least of which was to facilitate the transfer of Eagles flight operations to other feed operators in order to, diversify their feed.
If we were to win this grievance, it would not stop the transfer of ownership of Eagles aircraft to AA, nor would it stop the transfer of Eagles flight operations to other feed operators. What it would require is that pursuant to Section 1 of our collective bargaining agreement, Eagle pilots and the Eagle contract would have to transfer with aircraft to the other feed operator. For example, if AA were to outsource some of Eagles current flying to Mesa Airlines, the number of Eagle pilots required to staff those aircraft and contract would go with the aircraft to Mesa Airlines and be employed at that carrier with a five year window during which they could elect to transfer back to Eagle. In the end, though, the flying would leave American Eagle. This grievance was about pilot jobs, not the transfer of assets.
Today, we settled this grievance for an option the MEC believes to be better than our original contract provisions. The settlement is as follows:
1. Every American Eagle pilot who is on the American Eagle pilot seniority list as of October 11, 2011 will be offered a job as an American Airlines pilot in the future.
2. American Eagle pilots hired under this settlement agreement will not be subjected to a pre-employment interview or pre-employment medical examination prior to transferring to American Airlines.
3. American Eagle pilots will be offered a minimum of 35% of every American Airlines new-hire class. In the event that 35% of American Airlines new hire class is greater than 25 pilots per month, American Eagle will be required to release at least 25 Eagle pilots per month.
4. If American Eagle loses flying and such loss results in a furlough, American Airlines will increase the percentage of Eagle pilots in their new-hire classes to a minimum of 50%. The meter above will continue to apply.
5. If American Eagle loses flying and such loss might result in a furlough, American Airlines will also attempt to negotiate preferential interviews for American Eagle pilots at the carrier who has successfully bid for the flying that Eagle is losing.
6. This settlement does not impact the existing rights of American Eagle flow-through pilots who currently possess American Airlines pilot seniority numbers, or the rights of the 824 pilot positions awarded as remedy by Arbitrator Nicolau. Those provisions are in place and will remain effective without regard to this settlement agreement.
7. American Eagle has agreed to clarifying contract language regarding the scope of work that American Eagle pilots perform in the event of a divestiture.

What if they just straight up retire certain aircraft? That could pose a problem.....

I'm not so sure. Based on the projected retirements at AA over the next number of years it could easily be 16 years or more for the most junior guys at Eagle. No way is it worth so many years at a regional carrier IMO...

The fist 250 go in a straight shot, then 824 go at 50% with of tue street hiring (limited to like 25 a month, so it will go a little bit faster than the numbers above, take into account eagle retirements as well as guys going somewhere else)

Remember, some Eagle pilots will turn 65 in the next few years, some Eagle guys will probably stay at Eagle, and some Eagle guys might go to another major, so it could be a little sooner than 16 years to go through the list

I factored the 250 and the 824 at 50/50 in... it still doesn't look that great. If I were a new hire I wouldn't be expecting to go over any time within the next 15 years.

If you want to stick around at a regional for that long vying for the banana they're dangling out there that may or may not even be real then more power to ya...

It doesnt even have to be like that. Those of us who are junior will likely upgrade faster (hopefully) which will make us more marketable when other majors start hiring. If things move really fast at American, great. If not, well its not the only game in town.

But you should certainly be expecting to have much more career progression than pilot groups with NO preferential hiring agreements....

yeah, so you have to pay your dues a little... at least you have light at the end of the tunnel and it's daylight... the other guys with nothing have only a train headed their way.

somebody DOES see the larger picture... for crying out loud. All we every hear from newbies is I want my PIC hours and up and out.... well Eagle just got guaranteed movement... they'll have the same number of guys bailing for jetblue, Delta or whomever as every other regional... plus they'll have guys going to AA.... so, upgrade quick, shop yourself around, but have a slot at AA as a fallback...

just be hired before Oct 11,2011

Ill be honest, im more concerned about not having a job in 6 months. If a divesture happens do you really think eagle can compete cost wise with other regionals? Eagle pilots will soon join the the rest of the industry in their dislike for airlines like Mesa.

It feels to me like a lot of posturing and hype. Ive followed this stuff for several years and if you search on google you can find lots of past news stories that had the same tone. I found one from 2008 that read almost exactly like what we are hearing. The only reason the divesture ever comes on the table is that the shareholders want to hold the board accountable for not making a big enough profit. Eagle happens to be fairly top heavy on the seniority list, which does hurt profitability SOME. Then again we are still using a computer system from the 60s so there is probably something to be said about lack of efficiency maybe?

Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.... It will all work out in the end...

Also if you read the agreement (if you can get on the alpa website yet), it says that even if planes are outsourced, our pilots are the ones who fly them. That sounds like SOME job security. Maybe not enough for some people though....

Man I hope you're right. It may just be my nervousness from previous ventures. I thought I read that our pilots would get preferred hirring at the new carrier if the planes were given to them? I could be wrong but I thought that's what it said.

Just to help a little bit about being hired before Oct 11. Is that get yourself a class before Oct 11, because your hiring date is not when you pass the interview is your first day of class.

Realistically unless you want to stay at Eagle for 12-18 years it really doesn't matter.

I just was adding what means date of hire for American Eagle. If the person want to be here 12 - 18 years to go to AA, well is his/her problem, not mine.

You are assuming that whomever wins a new CPA with American would use Eagle aircraft. It could very easily occur like this: 1. American retires the EMB135's/140's/some 145's and the ATR's 2. Another company comes in with their own CRJ200's/EMB145's and Q400's and uses those. I don't believe the pilots are protected at that point (except for the furlough language). The whole point of diversifying is to decrease costs. Using the same aircraft and the same pilots is not going to decrease costs.

Yea I read it wrong. IF the grievance was won, that is what would have happened.