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Eagle Files SEC Form 10
Read and discuss...
EDGAR Search Results American may reduce its business with us. Beginning on January 1, 2014, American will have the right to withdraw a specified number of up to 40 jet aircraft in each year from the terms of the Air Services Agreement, provided that we have received at least 12 months prior notice of the withdrawal. Beginning on January 1, 2012, American will also have the right to withdraw up to 12 Super ATR turbo-prop aircraft from the terms of the Air Services Agreement in each year. American’s right to withdraw aircraft each year is cumulative so that any number of aircraft not withdrawn in any year may be withdrawn in a subsequent year, subject to certain limitations. American will also have certain additional rights to withdraw aircraft under the Air Services Agreement upon certain events, such as if (i) we do not agree to provide at least the same number of block hours on a final monthly schedule as are set forth on any associated requested plan for three consecutive months; (ii) the aircraft is no longer subject to an aircraft lease with American due to our default or there is an event of loss with respect to such aircraft, but only if such event of loss or any termination of lease was not caused by the gross negligence or willful misconduct of American or an American agent; (iii) we fail to maintain a specified controllable completion rate over certain designated time periods; or (iv) we exceed certain preset fuel consumption baselines over certain designated time periods. |
Sounds like expressjet 2.0
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Originally Posted by PruneJuice
(Post 1037159)
Sounds like expressjet 2.0
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Why is Eagle hiring like crazy now? I would think they wouldn't be hiring as much since their future is shaky.
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Originally Posted by Flywife
(Post 1037168)
Why is Eagle hiring like crazy now? I would think they wouldn't be hiring as much since their future is shaky.
I concur with the above, it sounds exactly like ExpressJet 2.0. The aircraft and associated debt will be retained by AA and must be used for AA feed while operated by Eagle unless prior approval is given by AA for the aircraft to be used for another carrier. There is also a paragraph about labor cost and the success of Eagle being contingent upon reducing labor costs. Read into that as you wish but it means concessions and/or the senior folks bailing for AA before 2014. As a part of the reduction in aircraft AA must give one year prior notice and they can pull 40 jets a year starting in January 2014... Seems all too convenient that our CBA is amendable in January 2013... Is AMR pulling pages from the CAL and DAL playbooks? It sure seems that way to me. |
Originally Posted by Flywife
(Post 1037168)
Why is Eagle hiring like crazy now? I would think they wouldn't be hiring as much since their future is shaky.
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Originally Posted by Flywife
(Post 1037168)
Why is Eagle hiring like crazy now? I would think they wouldn't be hiring as much since their future is shaky.
I was riding with two AA crews yesterday trying to get home. Both said the same thing i have been hearing, AA has to start hiring now, and they are not going to give up their scope. They'll strike first. So for all the people who keep saying eagle cannot make it because they only have 50 seaters. well, so will ANY other carrier who tries to fly for AA. Could Eagle sink? Sure. However it could also be the place to be! Youngest Captain I believe is 4yr 3months, and that number is dropping. A lot of senior captains are leaving! I have helped a couple guys try to get on with eagle and I'm still encouraging them to do so. |
Originally Posted by Flywife
(Post 1037168)
Why is Eagle hiring like crazy now? I would think they wouldn't be hiring as much since their future is shaky.
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Originally Posted by SATCFI
(Post 1037208)
Youngest Captain I believe is 4yr 3months
4 and 7....let's get those numbers straight :p |
Originally Posted by SATCFI
(Post 1037208)
It depends on how you choose to look at it. It's no more shaky then ANY other regional! This new asa Is a nine year deal. Get hired on now (before oct 11) and have a chance to go to AA, if your number comes up it's straight to class at AA no interview or medical. The flying is NOT going anywhere soon! The atrs will be starting to leave (which was going to happen divestiture or not) next year but that is still not a big deal. Eagle is still very understaffed, and every single captain I have spoken flown with is leaving to AA as soon as their number is chosen. The next group starts going to AA in November.
I was riding with two AA crews yesterday trying to get home. Both said the same thing i have been hearing, AA has to start hiring now, and they are not going to give up their scope. They'll strike first. So for all the people who keep saying eagle cannot make it because they only have 50 seaters. well, so will ANY other carrier who tries to fly for AA. Could Eagle sink? Sure. However it could also be the place to be! Youngest Captain I believe is 4yr 3months, and that number is dropping. A lot of senior captains are leaving! I have helped a couple guys try to get on with eagle and I'm still encouraging them to do so. |
Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 1037221)
4 and 7....let's get those numbers straight :p
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Originally Posted by SATCFI
(Post 1037208)
The atrs will be starting to leave (which was going to happen divestiture or not) next year but that is still not a big deal.
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SATCFI; was riding with two AA crews yesterday trying to get home. Both said the same thing i have been hearing, AA has to start hiring now, and they are not going to give up their scope. They'll strike first.
Please not another 5 minute strike in ther middle of the night. AMR will go right straight to a BK court and settle all. |
SATCFI; was riding with two AA crews yesterday trying to get home. Both said the same thing i have been hearing, AA has to start hiring now, and they are not going to give up their scope. They'll strike first.
Please not another 5 minute strike in ther middle of the night. AMR will go right straight to a BK court and settle all. AMR may have cash on hand but their debt is 3-4 times more than the cash they have in addition they have pawned everything, slots, aircraft and any buildings they had owned. The first 200 new aircraft on order are all leases, nothing owned. APA has only one thing in there favor, AMR mgt greed but that could also work against APA. |
If AMR declares BK, there goes the 9yrs ASA....
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and your point is what, scare ae pilots? it would be more in line with AA furloughs another 1000 pilots and increases its codeshare with others and become a truly virtual airline. Paint American on the cheapest charter operator and fly AA. APA is not on a solid foundation, it is the illusion that all are looking at. But we will not know until the TA comes out at AA and is voted on.
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1037274)
If AMR declares BK, there goes the 9yrs ASA....
This guy gets it .. |
Originally Posted by seattlepilot
(Post 1037371)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This guy gets it .. |
If AMR BK's, all bets are off. No flows, contarcts, deals, scope, or what ever. I don't think they will though.
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Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 1037444)
If AMR BK's, all bets are off. No flows, contarcts, deals, scope, or what ever. I don't think they will though.
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Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 1037444)
If AMR BK's, all bets are off. No flows, contarcts, deals, scope, or what ever. I don't think they will though.
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Bankruptcy doesn't allow a company to nullify any and all contracts. A federal bankruptcy judge will make the determination of which contracts get modified in order to allow the company to exit bankruptcy protection.
As far as I know....;) |
Originally Posted by The Chow
(Post 1037666)
Bankruptcy doesn't allow a company to nullify any and all contracts. A federal bankruptcy judge will make the determination of which contracts get modified in order to allow the company to exit bankruptcy protection.
As far as I know....;) |
Originally Posted by stbloc
(Post 1037992)
Gives these kids a break. They have no clue how the world operates since they are fresh out of High School. One day they will all learn the hard way.
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The flow is worth it. Eagle is the place to be now and who would have thought that 5 years ago.
No interview not medical no sim ride. Just bid to go to AA like it was another base. |
Prunejuice
You are making the unjustified assumption that going to AA is a good opportunity and that it is possible in some reasonable time frame. For someone hired today, AA is, at least, five, more likely 8-10 years away. Do you not think that better offers might come in that time? AA has a terrible balance sheet, debt/equity is astronomical; it has been losing money for four years; everything is hocked, explaining their cash balance; the Street is very down on them and everyone in the industry are dubious of their future, as it looks now. Read their financials and the news. They have the highest costs in the US industry, never been thru the BK reorganization that was used by every other line to trim their costs. The idea that the APA would strike is laughable, they have no leverage and a load of senior guys that would lose everything in a BK filing. The BK judge gets to rule on all contract modifications, management gas to justify the need for contract mods, but the record is that Mgt gets most of what they want, especially in the early going. Trust me, I went thru Eastern's BK and have closely followed all the other ones. I have friends at DL, CO, AA, and UA, all pretty much agree on the facts, if not the outcomes. |
deleted, theres only one reason someone posts at 2am lol
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Originally Posted by meeko031
(Post 1038047)
...please enlighten us all with your wisdom. If you know how the world operates and the future of the airlines, why are you still here? Not an attack but a serious question? :o
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Originally Posted by stbloc
(Post 1038168)
Because I'm an analyst for a firm.
1. I'm sorry if said some information that ruffled some feathers. 2. Just make sure you have an exit plan at all times. 2. this goes for any decision in life!!!! good luck with the flying enjoy |
I'm amazed at how many authoritative educated people on these boards (at least THEY think so) can't even master the english language. When you can't spell/ use grammar, we should respect your informed/ educated opinion?
AA has issues. AE has issues. The U.S.A. has issues. All will need to be dealt with, or none will survive, long term. Doubtful that any of these issues will be resolved on internet message boards... Just my .02 |
Originally Posted by Iowa Farm Boy
(Post 1038186)
I'm amazed at how many authoritative educated people on these boards (at least THEY think so) can't even master the english language. When you can't spell/ use grammar, we should respect your informed/ educated opinion?
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Originally Posted by stbloc
(Post 1038168)
Because I'm an analyst for a firm. Just because what I say doesn't mean it's going to happen. I look at all the facts and previous ventures and apply logic. Thats what I do but now however I want to go back and fly again. I'm sorry if said some information that ruffled some feathers. Just people need to understand the facts. As you know i'm a big opponent to going to Eagle although I would go if no other airline gave me an opportunity. Just make sure you have an exit plan at all times. This new AE is about a 50/50 chance it will work out for most new hires. You know they run fleet totally obsolete. So unless they have any replacement insight I wouldn't plan any growth here. The only event that will provide pilots moving up is the flow up. But the real question is how fast can they flow up while parking 135's in the desert. That's why is say 50/50. To many varibles to get a clear picture right now. And a AMR BK, all bets and contracts are off with AE. you are at the mercy of the courts and they will get those obsolete planes parked overnight.
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Originally Posted by stbloc
(Post 1038168)
Because I'm an analyst for a firm. Just because what I say doesn't mean it's going to happen. I look at all the facts and previous ventures and apply logic. Thats what I do but now however I want to go back and fly again. I'm sorry if said some information that ruffled some feathers. Just people need to understand the facts. As you know i'm a big opponent to going to Eagle although I would go if no other airline gave me an opportunity. Just make sure you have an exit plan at all times. This new AE is about a 50/50 chance it will work out for most new hires. You know they run fleet totally obsolete. So unless they have any replacement insight I wouldn't plan any growth here. The only event that will provide pilots moving up is the flow up. But the real question is how fast can they flow up while parking 135's in the desert. That's why is say 50/50. To many varibles to get a clear picture right now. And a AMR BK, all bets and contracts are off with AE. you are at the mercy of the courts and they will get those obsolete planes parked overnight.
lets assume for a moment that all the majors will be hiring in huge numbers starting over the next year or two.... then lets assume that the majority of these new hires are going to come from the regionals... and most - but not all - of them from the left seat at the regionals. Now, every regional is going to have tons of guys bailing for greener pastures.... which means the new guys will all be moving up that much sooner... except, at Eagle guys will also be moving on up to AA as well as bailing for other carriers... so, it stands to reason more guys will be leaving from Eagle than from say TSA or PNCL simply due to the extra opportunities.... all of which means the new kids get into the left seat faster at Eagle than anyplace else.... get their turbine PIC sooner and can then bail for a major sooner than the next guy.... or, if they choose... they can sit back being a senior CA in just a few short years and wait for a walk on job at AA without jumping through any hoops as a backup plan. |
Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 1039087)
if you're as good a pilot as an analyst, do us a favor... don't return to flying.
lets assume for a moment that all the majors will be hiring in huge numbers starting over the next year or two.... then lets assume that the majority of these new hires are going to come from the regionals... and most - but not all - of them from the left seat at the regionals. Now, every regional is going to have tons of guys bailing for greener pastures.... which means the new guys will all be moving up that much sooner... except, at Eagle guys will also be moving on up to AA as well as bailing for other carriers... so, it stands to reason more guys will be leaving from Eagle than from say TSA or PNCL simply due to the extra opportunities.... all of which means the new kids get into the left seat faster at Eagle than anyplace else.... get their turbine PIC sooner and can then bail for a major sooner than the next guy.... or, if they choose... they can sit back being a senior CA in just a few short years and wait for a walk on job at AA without jumping through any hoops as a backup plan. -The majors retirement or growth schedules will not produce "huge" hiring numbers for several more years. By then Eagle could be half (or even less) then its current size. -The transfer agreement for Eagle pilots to AA is modest at best, in addition to the fact that the language (and hiring agreement) is filled with holes and ambiguity that favors AMR and an ability to nix the entire thing down the road. -AMR has stated the primary reason for divesting Eagle is to obtain cheaper feed. This will be done through competition via whipsawing several carriers against each other. That means even if Eagle stays an AA feeder for 9 years, they be seeing much of their current flying going to others. Eagle's long-term viability requires that it get contracts for feeding other majors beside AA, which considering 80% of their fleet are economic dinosaurs that can't compete revenue wise with carriers already flying for other majors, makes it also likely that Eagle will actually be shrinking rapidly. This is likely to result in LESS captains positions, as opposed to more as shrinkage equals or exceeds captain attrition to AA and/or competitive carriers. Before you crack return shots off at others because you believe their shooting aim to be poor, you should examine your own wild gunplay for flaws first. |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1039130)
One could say the same to you considering the above "analysis".
-The majors retirement or growth schedules will not produce "huge" hiring numbers for several more years. By then Eagle could be half (or even less) then its current size. -The transfer agreement for Eagle pilots to AA is modest at best, in addition to the fact that the language (and hiring agreement) is filled with holes and ambiguity that favors AMR and an ability to nix the entire thing down the road. -AMR has stated the primary reason for divesting Eagle is to obtain cheaper feed. This will be done through competition via whipsawing several carriers against each other. That means even if Eagle stays an AA feeder for 9 years, they be seeing much of their current flying going to others. Eagle's long-term viability requires that it get contracts for feeding other majors beside AA, which considering 80% of their fleet are economic dinosaurs that can't compete revenue wise with carriers already flying for other majors, makes it also likely that Eagle will actually be shrinking rapidly. This is likely to result in LESS captains positions, as opposed to more as shrinkage equals or exceeds captain attrition to AA and/or competitive carriers. Before you crack return shots off at others because you believe their shooting aim to be poor, you should examine your own wild gunplay for flaws first. Why did this not happen at Mesaba, or Compass? Or even to this level XJ for that matter? What will happen in 2015 at AWAC? What does this mean for PSA and Piedmont? What happens if hiring begins like they claim it will at the majors over the next 2 years and the regionals cant find pilots to fill the right seats? |
A common misconception that I see brought up often is that Eagle is going to bid for other flying with it's current fleet. This is not true as an ASA can include new planes in the agreement or Eagle could go out and find a new fleet with a signed ASA in hand.
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Originally Posted by Subpilot
(Post 1039427)
A common misconception that I see brought up often is that Eagle is going to bid for other flying with it's current fleet. This is not true as an ASA can include new planes in the agreement or Eagle could go out and find a new fleet with a signed ASA in hand.
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Originally Posted by Stryker
(Post 1039436)
I feel like this is what AMR wants. Its one way they can get around scope for more 70 seaters. I dont know the particulars, but the rumors I have been hearing is that Eagle will increase 70-90 seaters if possible once on their own...
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Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1039440)
I don't see how. I'm pretty certain AA pilots scope restrictions remain the same regardless of whether regional is wholly owned or not.
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Originally Posted by Subpilot
(Post 1039452)
Put all the Current fleet on one certificate and then use the other cerificate to purchase E190's and start a codeshare with AA. Jetblue tested these waters earlier in the year successfully.
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