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Quote:

Originally Posted by drrhythm2 (Post 1075369)

In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object.

drrhythm -

If you are making a distiction between a state's actual interpetation of DUI as a singular form of the wider body of Drunk Driving Offenses, then you might be right. If you are, as most people do, lump DUI, DWI, and in OK - APC (Actual Physical Control) together under the same umbrella, then your interpetation is incorrect and you would be charged with APC in the state of OK in the above stated scenario which carries like penalties and would most likely be viewed by a prospective employer in the same manner.
As an example:

Quote:

Oklahoma statute § 47-11-902 v1 . There are a few different drunk driving violations available in OK including DUI, DWI and a unique charge to the state referred to as APC (or Actual Physical Control).

Oklahoma APC: This is generally reserved for those persons not actually driving a motor vehicle but still in actual physical control of the vehicle; for instance the vehicle could be parked and someone is under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs and is in the vehicle with the keys in a position of control (driver seat, sole possession of the keys, etc...).

I know of many other states that you will be charged with some type of offense if found passed out in your car with the keys anywhere NEAR your possession. The thought process is much more along the lines of the person wasn't exhibiting the good sense not to drive while drunk rather than passed out prior to getting the chance. There isn't much slack given in favor of the driver in these cases and therefore your thought process should be one of leaving NO DOUBT; which is why I don't have single drink if I am driving nowdays. The possible one-in-million shot just isn't worth it for a beer with my chicken wings :)

Now as far as riding a bicycle or walking home from the bar after having too many, and still getting hit up with some type of drunk in public charge, which inhibits your chances of getting hired on in this challenging environment is just a reflection of the winds blowing a certain way. If you want to fight against the winds then you take your chances knowing full well the possible consequences of your actions.

USMCFLYR

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehaeckercfi (Post 1075299)

Or, how about the guy who thinks he is okay to drive home. As soon as he gets in his car, he decides it isn't a good idea, and decides to sleep it off in his car. 1 hour later, a cop shows up to find him sleeping, wakes him up, does a sobriety test, and issues a DUI under the guise of "operating" the vehicle.

This happened to a friend of mine. He claims he never intended to drive the car, but since it was a cold night he started it to run the heater so he could sleep it off. A couple hours of later a cop showed up and busted him and it held up in court. Sucked for him. Good thing he doesn't want to be an airline pilot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drrhythm2 (Post 1075369)

Ehaeker - I disagree. I think a DUI does show, without a doubt, a major lapse in judgement. Granted, not everyone who gets one is blackout-drunk behind the wheel. But it doesn't take blackout-drunk to kill yourself. All you have to do it be buzzed enough to not notice a red light or stop sign, and you could kill / maim / cripple a whole family or worse.

In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object. Even if this was the case, he/she could have made better arrangements that wouldn't have put him/her in that situation in the first place. How about just having good enough judgement not to get so drunk you would need to sit in your parked car to sleep it off?

You are going to have a really hard time coming up with any scenario in which getting a DUI was the result of good judgement or decision-making. Now, whether it's possible to change your attitude, atone for your mistake, and be reliably professional in the future is much more debatable. But if you are going to try to argue that getting a DUI doesn't always indicate poor judgement and decision making at the time it happened, I just don't think you have a case.

These facts are always (or so nearly always that there is no distinction) true:

1) You got behind the wheel of something that can kill people, knowing you could put someone's life at risk
2) You did it knowing it was illegal to do so
3) You did it knowing the huge risk to your career aspirations
4) In spite of the above, you did it anyway.

If you are someone hiring at an airline, you'd have to think the following:

1) Someone with a DUI is much more likely to have problems with alcohol abuse or dependency than someone without.
2) Someone with a DUI is much more likely to exhibit poor judgement, risk management, attitude towards risk-taking, etc than someone without.
3) Someone with a DUI made a decision that put his/her immediate desire to drive somewhere ahead of the elevated risk of killing/injuring himself or others.

That doesn't sound like someone you want in your cockpit. No?

No one is arguing that making the decision to drink and drive shows bad judgement at that moment. But one DUI does not establish a pattern of making bad decisions.

In my state keys in the ignition engine running equals operation ...I have a friend who was in a ski town same situation ..he claims he was cold so had the engine running but
the court system had heard that claim many times before and was unimpressed

the problem here IMHO is the recency of the DUI...Was the case even adjudicated yet ?Did he recieve a sentence ?Was his license reinstated ? Need more info .Also how old is he ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1075390)

I know of many other states that you will be charged with some type of offense if found passed out in your car with the keys anywhere NEAR your possession.

At a SADD event decades ago, we were instructed that if you want to sleep it off in your car, give your keys to a buddy or lock them in the trunk. Since you can not physically operate the vehicle, you can not be charged with DUI.

Keys in your posession = DUI.

People love casting stones when they likely have taken the wheel at least once when they were "ok to drive." Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting anyone off the hook. Fact is, everyone makes mistakes, but DUI is a big'un. If its past lawyer'ing up and fighting it then you need to find a flight school, corporate or 135 gig. Getting into 121 is gonna be very tough. Got a buddy with a full-on DUI that flew in Saipan VFR 135, then went to a small corporate gig in the midwest, then twin-cessna's on Cape Cod, and now scheduled 135 in the midwest. Getting work isn't impossible, and getting into 121 isn't impossible, but your buddy may have to accept an alternative career path. A clean record post-DUI and a record of doing what you can to continue flying will make getting hired down the road easier (not to mention that the word of previous employers can carry a lot of weight).

**I know I said "you" a lot, but I meant your buddy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 1075334)

You are 100% incorrect. There are guys there that can attest to that.

With a recent DUI? Such that they cannot enter Canada?

No, there are not any RECENT HIRES unless his parent or uncle is a SGU heavy.

There are plenty who got DUIs after being hired, or were hired before the cannucks got so anal about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1075510)

Yes recent hires. Yes Can go to Canada. I was just correcting your 100%

Quote:

Originally Posted by drrhythm2 (Post 1075369)

In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object. Even if this was the case, he/she could have made better arrangements that wouldn't have put him/her in that situation in the first place. How about just having good enough judgement not to get so drunk you would need to sit in your parked car to sleep?

It actually happened to the UND CFI that killed himself via nosing a Seminole in the ground in SD. If I remember right it was his second DUI and felt his career was over. Was winter, after a night of drinking he turned the car on for heat and hopped in the back to sleep it off. Cop rolled up and got hit with a DUI. The key was that even if he put the keys under the car, in the trunk, or sat in the back seat with car running, the understanding of it according to my cop friends is that a person still had "access" to the car to drive. Only "safe bet" is to toss the keys into the woods with your back turned and eyes closed. Still just call a cab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 1075520)

Yes recent hires. Yes Can go to Canada. I was just correcting your 100%

Yes, as long as they can enter Canada SKW is very tolerant (for an airline).

But if they have a recent DUI the only way they are getting in is with family connections and senior-management over-ride of the seniority system to keep them on the EMB and out of canada.

That was my whole point, a RECENT DUI is a problem.