I hadn't heard that story, and that's really tragic. I can understand how that could happen, and how he must have felt.

Obviously, it's a bad law that says sleeping in the back of a car while drunk can result in a DUI charge. That seems ridiculous. No disagreement there.

That being said, I think the problem was that he was out for "a night of drinking," this after already having a DUI, and already knowing how potentially devastating that could be for his career. Really good judgement would be to not go out drinking in the first place, or limit yourself to two drinks, or have a DD lined up, or take a cab, or any of 100 things he could have done other than sleep in his car. And I really hate to say this, but ignorance of the law has never been and never will be an excuse for breaking it, nor is disagreeing with the law. I really feel for that guy. I know for every guy caught with a DUI there are 10 (or more) that don't, and there is an element of luck involved. But... for every guy who gets a DUI for sleeping in the back of a running car while drunk, there are probably 50 who get one for legit driving while intoxicated, wouldn't you think? And you can't really ask the airline to try to sort that one out.

But the bottom line is that you have to take responsibility for yourself. You are responsible for knowing the law and acting within it, even if it's silly. You are responsible for using judgement to keep yourself out of situations where you might have to, for example, sleep in the back of your car instead of driving.

But the bottom line is that you have to take responsibility for yourself. You are responsible for knowing the law and acting within it, even if it's silly. You are responsible for using judgement to keep yourself out of situations where you might have to, for example, sleep in the back of your car instead of driving.

Keep in mind that sleeping in the back of a car with windows up, car running and heater running, you could wind up dead!! (Carbon Monoxide!!)

Huh?

In a garage, maybe.

I drive around all the time with the heater on and my windows up!

Oh, well, I see. I am usually in the front when doing this, though. Must be the "sleeping in the back" part that's dangerous :)

You can actually get carbon monoxide poisoning from a car parked outside if it's not moving. My uncle had a mild case of this when he fell asleep in his running car parked outside waiting to pick up his daughter from school.

Uncle Buck.

What about a DUI that has been reduced to reckless operation which is my case? Future employers still look at it as a DUI and do we even have to disclose it?

I thought it was this one at E-R:

On September 6, 1998, about 2323 eastern daylight time, a Piper PA-44-180, N922ER,
registered to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, crashed on runway 7 left at Daytona Beach
International Airport, Daytona Beach, Florida, while on a Title 14 CFR Part 91 personal flight.
Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time and no flight plan was filed. The aircraft
was destroyed and the commercial-rated pilot was fatally injured. The flight originated from
Daytona Beach, the same day, about 2304.
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University personnel stated the pilot was employed as a flight
instructor. At 2249, the pilot attempted to use his issued key to gain access to the Embry-Riddle
flight line. Due to the late hour, the security computer system would not allow him access. The
pilot then climbed the 8-foot, barbed wire topped fence to the flight line and gained unauthorized
access to N922ER.

No the one at ER was that the instructor was tired of being picked on about his weight or something.

Here is a summery of the UND crash:
(I guess looking at the story, looks like he was in the front seat not back seat like I remembered)
Suicide suspected

Pilot charged with second DUI night before fatal flight

Law enforcement officials in Rapid City, S.D., suspect suicide in the Monday plane crash and death of a 22-year-old UND flight instructor. Robert Thomsen of Wild Rose, Wisconsin, died in the crash Monday evening at Rapid City Regional Airport one day after being charged with his second drunken driving offense in two and a half years. Thomsen was employed by UND as a flight instructor, and was flying a UND-owned twin-engine Piper Seminole, which crashed at 7:32 p.m. Suicide is suspected because of Thomsen's last radio message to the Rapid City airport control tower, said Rapid City Police Department spokesman, Capt. Christopher Grant. His father Paul said* his son's message to the Rapid City tower, was "Tell everyone I love them."**

The school knew of Thomsen's first offense, in May 1998, but Bruce Smith, dean of UND's John D. Odegard School of Aerospace Sciences said it didn't violate any of its policies in employing Thomsen, who is also a graduate of the UND school. Thomsen was hired in August 1998. Smith said the school didn't violate any law in Thomsen's employment. Smith said Wednesday "we were not aware of the Sunday morning charge." Smith said the school follows the Federal Aviation Administration's requirements with its pilots and like many other aviation employers subjects pilots, to random drug tests. Thomsen's pilot certification was suspended by the FAA for his 1998 offense, but he passed the needed steps to regain his credentials, Smith said. The steps included alcohol evaluations. After completing FAA steps and regaining his certification, Thomsen was hired as a flight instructor.

Smith and other UND aerospace officials declined to release Thomsen's personnel file, considered public under North Dakota law. The dean said, however, there's nothing in the file that would indicate a problem. He called Thomsen an exemplary pilot and student. Thomsen graduated on top of his class in December 1999 with a 3.84 grade-point average. Smith said, UND isn't declaring the accident a suicide. He said he wouldn't know the cause of the accident until the NTSB completes its investigation.

DUIs are often career-enders* "It depends on the hiring practices of* businesses," said John Vold, an operations inspector with the FAA's Fargo office.* If a pilot has one offense, aviation companies typically won't hire that pilot.* Airlines "absolutely" won't hire a pilot with two offenses.

According to Grand Forks police, Thomsen was found sitting in a parked car with its engine running, in a gas station lot in the 600 block of South Washington Street* about 3 a.m. Sunday. Police said Thomsen was alone in the car, hunched over behind the steering wheel. Police said Thomsen failed every sobriety test administered to him Sunday morning. The results of a Breathalyzer test showed his blood-alcohol level was nearly twice the legal limit, at .194 percent. Thomsen was arrested and jailed briefly Sunday morning at the Grand Forks County Correctional Center. He was bailed out later that day, according to a correctional officer.

Thomsen received his first DUI in 1998 while he was still an aviation student at UND, according to court documents. According to court records he was fined $300 and ordered to meet with an addiction counselor at UND student health. He was also sentenced to a year of supervised probation and ordered to take part in a 12-hour DUI offender's seminar. Thomsen's probation was completed in May 1999; he had no driving or alcohol violations since his 1998 DUI conviction, until he was arrested again Sunday.

Grand Forks Herald, Thursday, October 5, 2000

Well done :)

That really is tragic...

Being said, he wasn't "in the back seat sleeping it off" like the previous poster said. He was in the front seat. He was WAY over (almost 2.5 times) the legal limit, and this after sleeping for some period of time. He was at a gas station, not in the driveway of a friends house, it was 3am, and it seems pretty obvious he was the one who drove there, since he was hunched over the steering wheel alone with the engine running.

You can't tell me the situation still doesn't reek of bad judgement, especially in light of a previous DUI conviction. He may have been at a bar or party a block away, and made a good call to stay off the streets, but there are a million ways he could have avoided putting himself in a situation where he was passed out drunk in a car in a gas station parking lot at 3am. Really it sounds like he had a textbook problem with alcohol abuse, and needed more help to deal with it. If you can't stop yourself from getting that drunk and getting behind the wheel (even if a short distance) after having a previous DUI and being in the aviation business, you may need counseling to help.

Anyway, I feel really bad for that guy. I don't know what's next but I hope he's in a better place.