Dui and skywest
10-26-2011 | 10:41 AM
#21
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object.
If you are making a distiction between a state's actual interpetation of DUI as a singular form of the wider body of Drunk Driving Offenses, then you might be right. If you are, as most people do, lump DUI, DWI, and in OK - APC (Actual Physical Control) together under the same umbrella, then your interpetation is incorrect and you would be charged with APC in the state of OK in the above stated scenario which carries like penalties and would most likely be viewed by a prospective employer in the same manner.
As an example:
Oklahoma statute § 47-11-902 v1 . There are a few different drunk driving violations available in OK including DUI, DWI and a unique charge to the state referred to as APC (or Actual Physical Control).
Oklahoma APC: This is generally reserved for those persons not actually driving a motor vehicle but still in actual physical control of the vehicle; for instance the vehicle could be parked and someone is under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs and is in the vehicle with the keys in a position of control (driver seat, sole possession of the keys, etc...).
Oklahoma APC: This is generally reserved for those persons not actually driving a motor vehicle but still in actual physical control of the vehicle; for instance the vehicle could be parked and someone is under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs and is in the vehicle with the keys in a position of control (driver seat, sole possession of the keys, etc...).
Now as far as riding a bicycle or walking home from the bar after having too many, and still getting hit up with some type of drunk in public charge, which inhibits your chances of getting hired on in this challenging environment is just a reflection of the winds blowing a certain way. If you want to fight against the winds then you take your chances knowing full well the possible consequences of your actions.
USMCFLYR
10-26-2011 | 11:50 AM
#22
Gets Summer Off
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From: AA
Or, how about the guy who thinks he is okay to drive home. As soon as he gets in his car, he decides it isn't a good idea, and decides to sleep it off in his car. 1 hour later, a cop shows up to find him sleeping, wakes him up, does a sobriety test, and issues a DUI under the guise of "operating" the vehicle.
10-26-2011 | 12:13 PM
#23
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Ehaeker - I disagree. I think a DUI does show, without a doubt, a major lapse in judgement. Granted, not everyone who gets one is blackout-drunk behind the wheel. But it doesn't take blackout-drunk to kill yourself. All you have to do it be buzzed enough to not notice a red light or stop sign, and you could kill / maim / cripple a whole family or worse.
In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object. Even if this was the case, he/she could have made better arrangements that wouldn't have put him/her in that situation in the first place. How about just having good enough judgement not to get so drunk you would need to sit in your parked car to sleep it off?
You are going to have a really hard time coming up with any scenario in which getting a DUI was the result of good judgement or decision-making. Now, whether it's possible to change your attitude, atone for your mistake, and be reliably professional in the future is much more debatable. But if you are going to try to argue that getting a DUI doesn't always indicate poor judgement and decision making at the time it happened, I just don't think you have a case.
These facts are always (or so nearly always that there is no distinction) true:
1) You got behind the wheel of something that can kill people, knowing you could put someone's life at risk
2) You did it knowing it was illegal to do so
3) You did it knowing the huge risk to your career aspirations
4) In spite of the above, you did it anyway.
If you are someone hiring at an airline, you'd have to think the following:
1) Someone with a DUI is much more likely to have problems with alcohol abuse or dependency than someone without.
2) Someone with a DUI is much more likely to exhibit poor judgement, risk management, attitude towards risk-taking, etc than someone without.
3) Someone with a DUI made a decision that put his/her immediate desire to drive somewhere ahead of the elevated risk of killing/injuring himself or others.
That doesn't sound like someone you want in your cockpit. No?
In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object. Even if this was the case, he/she could have made better arrangements that wouldn't have put him/her in that situation in the first place. How about just having good enough judgement not to get so drunk you would need to sit in your parked car to sleep it off?
You are going to have a really hard time coming up with any scenario in which getting a DUI was the result of good judgement or decision-making. Now, whether it's possible to change your attitude, atone for your mistake, and be reliably professional in the future is much more debatable. But if you are going to try to argue that getting a DUI doesn't always indicate poor judgement and decision making at the time it happened, I just don't think you have a case.
These facts are always (or so nearly always that there is no distinction) true:
1) You got behind the wheel of something that can kill people, knowing you could put someone's life at risk
2) You did it knowing it was illegal to do so
3) You did it knowing the huge risk to your career aspirations
4) In spite of the above, you did it anyway.
If you are someone hiring at an airline, you'd have to think the following:
1) Someone with a DUI is much more likely to have problems with alcohol abuse or dependency than someone without.
2) Someone with a DUI is much more likely to exhibit poor judgement, risk management, attitude towards risk-taking, etc than someone without.
3) Someone with a DUI made a decision that put his/her immediate desire to drive somewhere ahead of the elevated risk of killing/injuring himself or others.
That doesn't sound like someone you want in your cockpit. No?
10-26-2011 | 12:50 PM
#24
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Joined: Jul 2010
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From: right seat
Dui
In my state keys in the ignition engine running equals operation ...I have a friend who was in a ski town same situation ..he claims he was cold so had the engine running but
the court system had heard that claim many times before and was unimpressed
the problem here IMHO is the recency of the DUI...Was the case even adjudicated yet ?Did he recieve a sentence ?Was his license reinstated ? Need more info .Also how old is he ?
the court system had heard that claim many times before and was unimpressed
the problem here IMHO is the recency of the DUI...Was the case even adjudicated yet ?Did he recieve a sentence ?Was his license reinstated ? Need more info .Also how old is he ?
10-26-2011 | 12:57 PM
#25
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From: blueJet
Keys in your posession = DUI.
10-26-2011 | 01:00 PM
#26
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From: Forever commuting
People love casting stones when they likely have taken the wheel at least once when they were "ok to drive." Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting anyone off the hook. Fact is, everyone makes mistakes, but DUI is a big'un. If its past lawyer'ing up and fighting it then you need to find a flight school, corporate or 135 gig. Getting into 121 is gonna be very tough. Got a buddy with a full-on DUI that flew in Saipan VFR 135, then went to a small corporate gig in the midwest, then twin-cessna's on Cape Cod, and now scheduled 135 in the midwest. Getting work isn't impossible, and getting into 121 isn't impossible, but your buddy may have to accept an alternative career path. A clean record post-DUI and a record of doing what you can to continue flying will make getting hired down the road easier (not to mention that the word of previous employers can carry a lot of weight).
**I know I said "you" a lot, but I meant your buddy...
**I know I said "you" a lot, but I meant your buddy...
10-26-2011 | 02:12 PM
#27
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
No, there are not any RECENT HIRES unless his parent or uncle is a SGU heavy.
There are plenty who got DUIs after being hired, or were hired before the cannucks got so anal about it.
10-26-2011 | 02:39 PM
#28
You scratched my anchor
Joined: Feb 2011
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Yes recent hires. Yes Can go to Canada. I was just correcting your 100%
10-26-2011 | 03:55 PM
#29
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: CRJ FO
In your example of a cop waking up someone sleeping behind the wheel to give them a DUI, I don't think that's even possible (assuming the COP isn't breaking the law). Sitting in a parked car isn't "operating" a motor vehicle. The crime is "driving" while intoxicated, not sitting in a stationary object. Even if this was the case, he/she could have made better arrangements that wouldn't have put him/her in that situation in the first place. How about just having good enough judgement not to get so drunk you would need to sit in your parked car to sleep?
10-26-2011 | 06:15 PM
#30
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,858
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
But if they have a recent DUI the only way they are getting in is with family connections and senior-management over-ride of the seniority system to keep them on the EMB and out of canada.
That was my whole point, a RECENT DUI is a problem.
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