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F9 320 11-30-2011 06:55 AM

As previously mentioned,

Originally Posted by F9 Driver (Post 1093331)
There are way too many moving pieces and permutations for a bunch of Internet prognosticators to figure out.

In chaos there exists opportunity and we would all be remiss if we did not consider the ability of BB and his team in the art of the deal.

All that being said I'll throw my thought against the wall. I think they will find a way to add flying at AA by leveraging the lower cost of FFD flying CHQ against AE. It could be a solution for the additional airframes from the branded side as well as some 170's and maybe 190's. This would not necessarily bode well for the current contract negotiations, but would keep everyone at RAH employed and RAH making money.

For Frontier there could be opportunity for a code share or as an alliance partner.

slumav505 11-30-2011 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by F9 320 (Post 1093745)
As previously mentioned,


In chaos there exists opportunity and we would all be remiss if we did not consider the ability of BB and his team in the art of the deal.

All that being said I'll throw my thought against the wall. I think they will find a way to add flying at AA by leveraging the lower cost of FFD flying CHQ against AE. It could be a solution for the additional airframes from the branded side as well as some 170's and maybe 190's. This would not necessarily bode well for the current contract negotiations, but would keep everyone at RAH employed and RAH making money.

For Frontier there could be opportunity for a code share or as an alliance partner.


sound theory. 190's I think are a stretch. I have a hard time seeing how a bankruptcy judge is going to allow more than industry standard in scope reduction. My money is on the Delta scope. AA itself will get a cheaper fleet renewal on interest rates. If I had to wager, the group that is going to be hardest hit by all of this is going to be Eagle at the regional level. Considering we are barely 24 hours past the announcement though no one really knows how this is going to go down in the end.

aviatormjc 11-30-2011 12:05 PM

With a potential scope release at American, Chautauqua is free to operate larger aircraft. Wasn't that the whole issue with the United 170's operated by Chautauqua and the purchase of Shuttle America?

G-Dog 11-30-2011 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by zoooropa (Post 1093655)
Or AA cancels the CPA without cause, assumes the leases, and then walks away from them in BK. AA is already trying to walk away from $2billion in RJ debt, what is 14 more shells?

I am not a bankruptcy expert, but I do not think they can take on the debt of 140s in question after they declare bankruptcy and just right it off. That would be like declaring bankruptcy and then buying a car and adding it to the debt you are trying to discharge. I could be wrong, would be the first time.

Dougdrvr 11-30-2011 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by F9 320 (Post 1093745)
As previously mentioned,


In chaos there exists opportunity and we would all be remiss if we did not consider the ability of BB and his team in the art of the deal.

All that being said I'll throw my thought against the wall. I think they will find a way to add flying at AA by leveraging the lower cost of FFD flying CHQ against AE. It could be a solution for the additional airframes from the branded side as well as some 170's and maybe 190's. This would not necessarily bode well for the current contract negotiations, but would keep everyone at RAH employed and RAH making money.

For Frontier there could be opportunity for a code share or as an alliance partner.

Paraphrasing Milo Minderbinder? BB is not above making a deal with the enemy to bomb his own base, but even Milo was more likable.

F9 Driver 11-30-2011 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by G-Dog (Post 1093998)
I am not a bankruptcy expert, but I do not think they can take on the debt of 140s in question after they declare bankruptcy and just right it off. That would be like declaring bankruptcy and then buying a car and adding it to the debt you are trying to discharge. I could be wrong, would be the first time.

AMR has to either accept or reject the contract with RAH. RAH may be persuaded to accept lesser terms to avoid rejection. Depending on what the current agreements allow AMR to do with respect to assumption of the 140 leases I'd guess that they could get favorable deals on the shells and take them off BB's hands.

48 hours into the bankruptcy and getting it all figured out.

F9 A319 11-30-2011 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by Dougdrvr (Post 1094027)
Paraphrasing Milo Minderbinder? BB is not above making a deal with the enemy to bomb his own base, but even Milo was more likable.

NICE, obscure reference to Catch-22!!!

Maybe Catch-22 should be required reading in basic indoc.

sizzlechest 11-30-2011 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by aviatormjc (Post 1093957)
With a potential scope release at American, Chautauqua is free to operate larger aircraft. Wasn't that the whole issue with the United 170's operated by Chautauqua and the purchase of Shuttle America?

yes, that was what precipitated the need to buy the Shuttle cert....

Ronaldo 12-01-2011 10:53 AM

BB stated that he expected to see scope erosion at AA within the short term. He expected that erosion to come in a contract but I think secretly he thought the bankruptcy would yield it.

I doubt BB will shed any certificates. He might move some planes around and violate some CBAs, LsOA and "Commercial Agreements" but that's business as usual for the loincloth wearing shaman.

As far as the lawsuit for LOA 67, I don't see how preventing the formation of a shell company has anything to do with BB seeking scope relief from AA (assuming that's what he'll do). If anything, that lawsuit, if successful, will keep BB from obtaining that scope relief, moving A/C over to the shell company and whipsawing the legacy RAHers.

But at the rate FAPA's lawsuit against the integration, and IBT's lawsuit against FAPAInvest LLC are proceeding, we'll have an answer on the wall before we could have made a supportable assessment.

EvilMonkey 12-01-2011 11:05 AM

What happens to the AMR/Jetblue "codeshare" now? Does anyone think that AMR's bankruptcy will make Jetblue more or less likely to acquire Frontier?


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