Pinnacle Pilot Concessions
 

“Unlike those employees, we will have the opportunity to determine in what ways our contract will be modified during the restructuring phase, should the need arise.”- ALPA Fastread

I’m sorry the only reason I voted in favor of this contract was to bring in scope. As bad as it is, whipsaw is worse in my mind. I have always thought this contract was sub-par and you will get a big NO vote on any concessions unless it comes with tremendously better work rules (which defeats the purpose).

So listen ALPA- NO CONCESSIONS NO MATTER HOW MUCH DOOM AND GLOOM.

There's NO point in having a union if we accept concessions.

NO CONCESSIONS.

The question is will any possible confessions be put to a pilot group vote or just done through the MEC? Any Mesaba guys remember how it was done when you were going through the bankruptcy?

Wow I thought my first year FO pay was already embarasingly low as it is.

The pilots are the one labor force that can make or break an airline in this type of financial hardship. If the union rolls on their back and takes concessions, we all know what will happen: minimum effort initiatives by the pilot group and the "burn it to the ground" mentality. NO CONCESSIONS: it's what's best for the company.

DO NOT succumb to management scare tactics guys. At XJT, we foolishly went down this path. Same scenario. Doom and gloom if we didn't give in. What a crock of sh!t that turned out to be. We gave the money back and management walked away with $35 million in golden parachutes when the place was sold to Uncle Jerry.

In the end, it made no difference whatsoever. DON'T DO IT. FULL PAY TILL THE LAST DAY!!!

Your carrier wasn't on the brink of Bankruptcy as PNCL seems to be.

The pilot group and the PNCL MEC has 2 choices. And 2 HARD CHOICES.

1. Take small concessions in work-rules, pay or contract sections in an effort to help the company reach their desired financial results.

OR

2. Take their chance in bankruptcy court and have a judge throw out your contract, your 401k match, unilaterally cut pay and most likely cut flying which would lead to MASS job losses.

I don't know if any of you guys look at your companies balance sheets, but it is CLEAR by indications of cashflow and expected costs that the company is in trouble. There is something deeper in the company that is not making money. There is no reason why they should be loosing $5 million per fiscal quarter. Q4 earnings results will show a bigger loss, I'm expecting.

You do not want to go to bankruptcy court with a company who is loosing that amount of money/per quarter against $1B in revenues. THINK.

What about the sh!t ton of money they earned on our crap wages for years to buy Colgan and Q's? I made my life work on less money and less time home. Their turn. How bout I spend all your money. Then Ill go broke. Then you help me out of my financial situation. No concessions.

No. Vote no.

Concessions? Sure, they can have my pinnacle points!

Your going to bankruptcy court regardless of a new concessionary contract. Do you want to go to court with your current contract, where they will make cuts, or with a concessionary contract, where they will make cuts from the cuts you just took. Look back at United and Frontier, both were told concessions were need to keep from going into bankruptcy while bankruptcy was always the plan by management. In the PBS special the United bankruptcy lawyers said this and if I remember correctly frontier went into backrupcty the next month after the concessionary contract was passed.

Do you want a 25% paycut from what you have now or a 25% paycut from a 25% paycut? That's a tough one.

We don't have to worry about management...we already know what they want. We need to worry about the fear-card our own MEC is about to play on the pilot group. Beware the promises of future returns!

Is this going to be put to a pilot vote or does the MEC gets sole authority?

History Lesson: USAirways

Concessions. Bankruptcy. Concessions 2.

Lots o' FUD going around...

Pilot group concessions won't save PNCL from declaring bankruptcy if that's what it takes to "remain competitive" - just ask any American Airlines pilot.

Only airline management could take 3 airlines that were all making money and turn the end sum into an unprofitable entity...

Thank you Boiler.

No concessions. We've got to unite around something, and this seems like a worthy cause.

We all know what happens to people who don't learn from history.

I agree...
And if they thought moral was low during TA1 just think what will happen if we do this. Our performance will be nill. Also, I hope ALPA doesn't screw us on this. I wonder how many would "opt out" just to prove a point. I know they still take the dues/some dues but it sends a message. I know several guys that have floated this around...

To ALPA reps: NO!!!!!!!

Are you listening?

Furthermore, you want concessions? Why don't they finish getting their house in order before coming to the big bad pilots? Pay already sucks and they want us to decrease it while flying 90 hr lines? Ok sure, let's go back to '08-'09...better get your sick notes ready...here's my one and only concession: you can take the crappy deadhead pay back-thats it...

Just in case any MEC reps are on here... (i really dont know)

ALPA! - No Concessions!

Wrong. We were told at the time that if we did not cut costs and give concessions to the company, we were heading straight for bankruptcy....and the same arguments you are making right now were made back then. It sounded something like this:

"Let's take small concessions or else a bankruptcy judge do it for us. Don't worry though, as soon as the company turns around there will be snap backs for pay."

So we gave, the bankruptcy never happened, and Uncle Jerry swooped in. Our management left with a sh1tload of money in their pockets. Contract guaranteed severances, they said. So I gave, and the rest of the XJT pilots and FA's gave so management could line their pockets.

I will tell you this....NEVER AGAIN. It is probably the single biggest regret I have in this career so far. To add insult to injury, we now work for a profitable parent company, and we still have not seen any snap backs in pay.

My advice guys...don't do it. You will give and you will only get more angry when you see management taking their multi-million dollar bonuses and severance packages anyway. Don't fund the corporate greed. We are all underpaid as it is already.

Pinnacle pilots already gave the company concessions for over 5 years. The company in that time threw away hundreds of millions of dollars in bad decisions, senior management pay, buying airlines, etc. Let them figure out this pickle they've gotten themselves into.

Play chicken with them. Make them blink first. Pinnacle is not a career. It is a job. With the amount of hiring that is going to be coming in the next few years, every single Pinnacle pilot will be able to get a new job if the airline closes doors... and thanks to not taking concessions, you won't be dragging down the rest of the industry and these new jobs will be better than your Pinnacle jobs.

PINNACLE PILOTS ARE NOT MANAGEMENT'S PIGGY BANK. DONT GIVE THEM ONE SINGLE CENT.

exactly. exactly. exactly. there must not be any concessions. I will concede nothing to a company that runs so inefficiently that it is literally offensive to hear them ask for money out of my check to subsidize a complete lack of competence in daily operations.

Management didn't throw anything away...
Pinnacle Airlines ? Crashing and Burning? - PNCL - Foolish Blogging Network

"The 2010 management team may have done an irreparable number on the company. The five-person executive team collected $4.41 million in compensation in 2010, which was an amount proportional to 35% of the company’s net income for the year. A hearty reward, considering the stock returned 4% during the period."

I'm for one, will not help float an inept management team...already have the resumes out.

Make sure that you let your union leadership know your feelings by posting on the 9E, XJ, 9L combined internal and private employee message board.

www.airlinkpilots.com

This is a great place too but some things are better said in private.

Airline mgmt 101...any concessions management can get from its workforce will go directly into management's pockets as the result of a bonus for obtaining said concessions from workforce. Not used to pay creditors, save Ferris etc..

Not a single f-in penny ! Let it burn !

To pilots:

No concessions!

When has any airline management asked for concessions to save the company and returned the favor when profitable again?

To our MEC:

No concessions!

You are not management's friends, you are our representatives. Don't let them tell you that pilots are the cause of the problem and that only pilots can provide the solution. Delay realignment training, but don't touch the contract because we will never get any concession back.

To Pinnacle management:

No concessions!

As long as this company continues to pay FORMER employees who helped put us in the situation, we shouldn't even be discussing pilot concessions.

If you think labor costs are high now, just imagine what they will be after any concession. I, along with many others, will do everything possible to sink the ship. Other places are hiring and I wouldn't think twice about jumping ship and while I wait, I will make sure we are always late, the APU will be on the entire time the aircraft is on the ground, I will look for the strongest headwind, I will use NTOP for every takeoff, I will make sure every scratch and mark on each prop is documented before each flight, and I will take my sweet time to get to any deadhead. In short I will look for anyway to make sure the money you take from future pilot concessions will go right back into our operations budget, and not your bonuses.

NO CONCESSIONS. I'll readily accept losing my job over bringing down this industry even more. I've lost my airline job in the past and I survived. It is absolutely unacceptable to work with crappier pay and rules than are out there already. Keep that in mind!

Don't give an inch, even if it means running it into the ground. Who cares, its just a regional airline. All of you will be moving on soon anyway. The majors will be hiring before you know it.

I am dead against any concessions as well, and i think it is fine to let your sentiments be known about the idea of subsidizing inefficiency and legal robbery of the workers out of your paycheck BUUUUUUT I don't think it is a good idea to come out in public and talk about work actions such as these.

I think we should wait a while and see what information comes out and what actions the MEC wants to take first and if you decide to procede with said plan, don't post about it or even talk about it!

Use MTOP not NTOP

Maybe he meant NTOP, then taxi back to the gate with a write up?
(not condoning, just saying) ;)

You always know when it's X-mas time in this buisness. Furloughs, concessions, base closures and armageddon. Tis the season (Cheers) :cool:

No Concessions.... Look what happened to AA!

Well...it certainly looks like we're all on the same page, for once.

My prediction:

An overwhelming vote in favor of concessions.


This "union" and the pilot group don't have the balls...

JAL CEO Cuts Pay - YouTube

a good CEO?

^^^ would be great to bring up during the next conference call. NO CONCESSIONS.

Absolutely NO concessions! I second the guy that said "full pay until the last day." Respectable.

On a side note, along with the entirely too expensive new uniforms, if we are getting those name tags like SkyWest, I'd like mine to read: I.M. Disgusted

Warren Buffett's Corporate Governance and Succession Plan


executive compensation: capitalist junkies

Training, training, training. The company wasn't allowed enough time to blend the operations before retraining 40% of the workforce. I'm not taking sides, but no company in any industry could handle it. The integration of pilots was either done too quickly or the Bloch fence debacle completely caught the company off guard (my pick). If the certs were merged and planes moved than there would be no need for initial retraining, 10 sims, or mass exodus between tickets. Look at the losses and look at the training costs, classes have stopped and they haven't even hired enough pilots yet. The company doesn't stand a chance. Granted moving downtown when they did was probably a mistake as well... did somebody say steak? Bankruptcy is real and its the easy way out, even a way for Daddy-D to shed 50's...

And the 3 mil we lost the quarter after Phil was dumped was exactly what he was paid for severance.