No furloughs at ASA!
 

XJT MEC jumped the gun on the furlough misinformation....I have it on good authority that there will be no furloughs on the ASA side...

So this is on the XJT side?

No, the XJT MEC put out a message to it's pilots saying that ASA furloughs would be coming over to XJT. The ASA MEC didn't put anything out because it wasn't a fact. Turns out the ASA MEC was right.

great news!
xjt ca

Actually, our MEC said that the furloughed XJT pilots that accepted ASA positions last year would be returning to the ERJ side. In addition, an agreement was reached to provide for further CRJ pilots to move to the ERJ should the need arise. I wouldn't characterize our MEC's foresight as "jumping the gun". I think it is only smart to make provisions, should an unfortunate furlough from the CRJ take place. Hopefully you are correct and no furloughs will be needed! :)

Actually, here is exactly what your MEC put out:


On the ERJ side of the house, we are seeing block hours increase again and more pilots being hired and upgraded. In addition, we are bringing back 18 of the 26 furloughed XJT pilots who went to ASA over a year ago. They will be arriving in the training center soon after the New Year. Added to that will be furloughed ASA pilots who wish to be hired on the ERJ side and placed into training as new hires with us. MOU 25 outlines a process similar to the one in MOU 18 when our furloughs went over to the CRJ side. While these furloughed CRJ pilots will be new hires on the ERJ, they will retain their furloughed status on the CRJ. Once the seniority list is integrated, they will retain their CRJ seniority spot on the pilot seniority list.

Our MEC took heat for not putting anything out while your MEC put this message out before anything was known for sure...Caused a lot of problems on this side of the company...

I'll agree that the message was poorly worded. However, only 18 of the 26 were coming back. I think the intention of the letter was to convey that provisions were in place to accommodate any additional furloughs.

The message caused quite the #h!tstorm over on this side of the fence and caused our MEC to take a lot of undeserved heat...It sure didn't help the already strained relationship between our two MECs...

Get over it dude. The letter was poorly worded. The provisions were made for a worst case scenario...and thankfully they won't be needed. The only one I see causing a sh!tstorm over this is you.

Do you have access to our ALPA message boards? Were you in the ASA crew lounges when our MEC was attacked by our pilots because they heard from your MEC that there would be furloughs? I'm not about to get over it..."DUDE"...

Angry, rude, and an RJ pilot are no way to go through life.............








:)


Sorry, couldn't resist!

It must be tough carrying all that weight on your shoulders, Joe.

Easy Joe, remember you're dealing with a bunch of "regional" pilots who think they're a "Major."

.....but what does that make SkyWest? God's gift?

A regional sparky. :rolleyes: We're all subcontractors providing outsourced lift so relax, merge and move on.

So...before we get into a major vs regional xjet vs asa endless roundabout... The last I heard was SH telling a recurrent class a week and a half ago that there WILL be furloughs... Exactly what's changed?

You do realize that the XJT MEC didn't just make this furlough news up? Somewhere management gave this information to them and went so far as to negotiate and sign an agreement to change our contract in order to give your furloughs an opportunity to come over here. If anything, you guys should be upset at management for jumping the gun.

Anyways, there might still be furloughs.

Have you stopped to think about the fact that this language for CRJ pilots to come to the ERJ WAS NEGOTIATED. It takes two parties to negotiate, which means our MEC didn't pull this stuff out of thin air. The way I see it, all our MEC did was negotiate something and then informed us of what they negotiated. I am proud of the fact that our MEC made these provisions for our fellow pilots on the CRJ, and I hope it isn't needed! Maybe you should direct your anger to your "more experienced MEC" who didn't tell you that these negotiations were taking place. We are all one company now. You need to "get on board."

You do realize that the ASA MEC created this LOA over a year ago to allow furloughed XJet pilots to get back to work when the hiring was going to the ASA side. The newly 'negotiated' LOA from the XJet MEC only added a provision to bring back the former XJet furloughs who wanted to return. There were no negotiations to furlough on the ASA side and the XJet MEC should have worded their email better to reflect that fact.

As for the 'more experienced' bs, you guys will have to get used to your new company management. The fact is that talk of furloughs has not been any more substantial from our management than the phrasing 'we are continuing to evaluate our options'. Trying to nail our management down is like trying to hold a snake with greasy hands. Instead of instructing someone to 'get on board', let's focus our resources on management. We may be Express Jet now but it's not the Express Jet you once knew!

Oh yeah... I certainly realize all of that. I'm not trying to have a contest about our MECs. My point is that discussions, negotiations, or whatever did take place to add this provision. It should have had a clear statement that furloughs past the 18 former ERJ pilots weren't certain. I am a fan of the transparency though.... Not to long ago, our MEC cared nothing about that.

As for "get on board".... That was sarcasm. Joe once came on our message board to tell us to "get on board" with the fact that we need to have a cost competitive contract. I don't mean to instruct anyone to do anything. In the name of unity I should have left that little dig out :D

I fully believe that we should focus on management and hammering out a contract. I know the old ExpressJet is gone. Hell, the good XJT has been gone since 2007ish. But hopefully this one can be as good if not better for its pilots.

Or we could be smart and drag out the contract for a couple of years. Why are we in a rush to merge when the only ones that will benefit from the synergies are the Skywest management team? If they want it done fast, they're going to have to bring some big carrots to the table. I doubt they will, and we're not willing to give up anything in our contract, in fact we want improvements.

It's actually humorous to watch Skywest management realize they've bitten more than they can chew! :cool:

Thats where your wrong. The same pilots that got mad at your MEC for not putting anything out also got mad at our MEC because ASA had sheltered xjt pilots from the street and there wasn't any reciprocity. So our MEC made it happen because furloughs were a very real possibility. Delta pulled airplanes and if there isn't enough attrition then there will be furloughs... that isnt fear mongering. It is the truth.

Maybe I am confused but are you mad that our MEC brought up the possibility of furloughs? Management made it very clear that furloughs were being considered before XJT's MEC ever got involved with changing the MOU. If furloughs were being considered they needed to be prepared for it. It might have thrown you guys into a panic but you should have been panicked well before then. The loss of the airplanes, management emails hinting at furloughs, and the eery quiet from your MEC were all good reasons to freak out. The fact that you now had a job vs hitting the street should have calmed the hysterics down a bit if anything.

Pointing fingers does nothing but I understand that people are stressed out about losing their jobs. Our MEC didn't do anything wrong and did in fact try to help. If they panicked you then you probably should have already been panicked from the information right in front of you.

So Joe says the XE MEC 'jumped the gun' by saying there would be furloughs on the ASA side? Kind of like how Joe just jumped the gun saying there WON'T be any furloughs?

Maybe everyone should just wait for official info.

This is false. There was no loa needed to bring back voluntary furloughs. The mou negotiated and agreed to by management and the MEC is to facilitate ASA furloughs coming to XJT. Management wouldn't approach, negotiate, and agree to a change in our contract unless they thought this was necessary. Like I said, the MEC didn't just wake up one day, make this up, and unilaterally change our contract.

What I am referring to and am not wrong about is ASA MOU #62 and Express Jet MOU #18, both of which you have access to and both of which were dated September of 2010. Are you claiming that the company, while it was hiring for the ASA side only, looked a year into the future and foreknew they would be thinking about furloughing the pilots the just hired? We're not talking about one day, we're talking about MOUs negotiated by both pilot groups LAST YEAR.

Personally, I'm not mad at anyone - I'm just stating as fact that the email the ExpressJet MEC sent out was poorly worded. As for panicking, again, welcome to the company!! We're opening a MEM base, we're not opening a MEM base, we need to evaluate staffing because we're under/over staffed, the sky is falling and it's all the pilots' fault! Our collective management pulls this BS all the time and most of us are used to it.

As for reciprocity, as near as I can tell from the dates MOU#62 on the ASA side and MOU #18 on the Express Jet side were done the same month last year, so why would anyone be mad?

BTW guys, ASA is not furloughing.

Wrong again. Those MOUs were to facilitate the XJT furloughs going to ASA as part of the transition and process agreement. MOU 25, which you have access to, is the reason for the MEC email explaining it and was passed a day before the email was sent. That MOU is to facilitate ASA furloughs going to XJT.

I have read that more carefully and I see that I am wrong. Also, I don't have access to your MOU 25 - our company only has up to MOU 19 from your side for public access and ALPA only allows access to the ASA contract.

I'm more curious now if the company might be playing the two MECs against each other. Why were MOUs done by each side last year but not this year? Why are there two different stories coming from each MEC about the possibility of furloughs at ASA?

There is not two stories coming out... There is the truth from the xjet mec and silence/bs from ours.

"Experience" is the same reason congress has a 9% approval rating. They are content to hang out and collect their 6 hour min days.

As of 2 weeks ago ASA MEC was saying furloughs. Obviously XJT's MEC knew what they were talking about. Perhaps something has now changed, perhaps not........

I'm completely stunned and embarrased that we have a 3 page thread discussing whose MEC said what. Its a bit like watching school girls argue about whose mother loves them more. Honestly, who cares? NOTHING matters until official notification is sent from management!

Well I don't know how it works on the ASA side but at XJT we are used to getting a "heads up" from the union about "possible" issues down the road. If management is mumbling about "maybe" reducing head count, our union will typically mention it so people can get ready even if it's not official.

If you read the company email from CT today, it certainly seems to me that there is still the possibility of a reduction after the crj700's are gone in May.

That wasn't the point of my post. I was explaining how stupid it is that pilots are arguing about whose MEC said what. I don't care whether or not furloughs are coming because I can't control it. No one should care. If someone is affected by a staffing reduction, they'll move over to fly the ERJ and life goes on. Layoffs and furloughs have been a way of life in this industry for decades and you just have to play the cards you're dealt. Bickering about when MOU's were drafted and which MEC is right or wrong doesn't solve a single issue; it just makes people look unprofessional.

More important than any of this is the unification of our pilot group. Guess what doesn't help that cause? Arguing about worthless E-mails. We need to stop peeing in each other's cereal and worry about the important things.

As a side note, I don't know why so many CRJ drivers are up-in-arms about the MEC E-mail from the XJT guys. When I read it, I knew immediately that they were just conveying the provisions of a new agreement that is now in place to PROTECT our CRJ pilots. Its a good thing and I don't think anyone needs to be upset about it. In fact, I'd probably take a voluntary transfer to the ERJ if I were near the bottom of the CRJ list.

Bottom line is that no one will be losing their jobs. Even if there are "furloughs" from the CRJ list, its more similar to a displacement than anything else.

I hope you all have a safe and Happy New Year. Kick back, have a cerveza, and don't sweat the small stuff.

I can't argue with any of that.

I would think that a May reduction will not occur as we will need everyone for June, July and August. We were scrambling this past summer, so with attrition, we are probably ok through August at a minimum.

Oh you know an extra 200 block hours will appear from a rainbow in July and we will get a memo saying "It doesn't matter how we got here".

Have you seen those stickers floating around?

Well, you know what...

Managing expectations is part of the task of handling communications.

And, when a party - not involved in the staffing element at one operation - jumps the gun and makes a clear statement - as if it were to be fact, that was never fact or exercised on - I think we all do a disservice to ourselves and our pilot groups if we stand by and make excuses as if such statements should be appropriate.

I won't get into the details, but it would have been nice if some coordination of publicly dessiminated statements by an MEC Chairman are at least shared internally before one makes a fool of them self, especially when it has more to do with the issues at the "other" side of the house.

Somewhat of a professional courtesy, that has been extended in the past when data was going the other way. Guess it was a bit expected that it could occur in the other direction as well.

However, it's really not an issue at present. And trust that this has been discussed internally and opinions have been made regarding similar behavior in the future.

No furloughs, for now. Sure, the Acey folks dodged a bullet - but it's not rocket science that this leadership have ran our Dulles base extremely thin since the beginning. It made absolutely ZERO sense to just reduce bodies without first trying to establish a good staffing element out of Dulles going forward. Your (Acey) IAD LEC and Scheduling and MEC made that case quite clear to the Company. I could toss numbers out there, but when line holders are having to meet a 95+ hour threshold, working minimum days off, and still not enough reservist in the domicle - something is wrong. The movement of these bodies will bring that threshold value down substantially to provide for much greater flexibility amongst line holders (max time off vs max credit) as well as adding much needed reserve bodies in both category.

It's a positive direction.

Just wanted say thanks for the ride to tge crew of the ASA flight from GRR to DTW today! Not sure if you are APCers or not. Also, thanks for your support in our struggles, sorry to hear about yours. We will try to "hold the line" and vote no to concessions.

Yes! They were awesome!

Surreal1221,

You seem like someone who's actually informed. Has it occurred to you that maybe there's not much communication between the MECs because the asa MEC keeps walking away from every meeting?

Here's the facts, the larger group (XJT) is not willing to take any concessions of any type. That includes PBS, pay, or any work rule that diminishes QOL. As some of your current and former union guys say "we are not getting on board with it". It's really that simple. Your MEC needs to get proactive at getting improvements to what we have, the financial state of the company is not their job. So they need to start playing ball with the guys that are trying to improve the landscape for the pilots (our guys). Maybe then you'll see some communication. Until then you can have your p.o.s. contract, and we'll keep ours, two separate lists, and we'll continue operating as one happy dysfunctional family. What do you think?

How about you get your house in order before you go pointing fingers?