Age 67 Rule...
 

Heard they are preparing another rule change. Good luck to the new hires anticipating a 'pilot shortage'.

Does anyone know where the info is on this, from the unions or govt?

Only a rumor...

your at Delta, heard they have been testing some select senior guys.

Yeah, I was hoping someone would have some better info on what those tests revealed. If they are indeed true.

Testing some 'select senior guys'? How so? Testing their ability to fly at 66 or 67? I don't think so. If fact, I know so. It isn't happening.

The last one took years to push through and the gray tops are leaving pretty fast. I think we are safe in this area. IMO we should be worried about the future of code sharing and cabotage in the USA. Our politicians can currently be swayed by any large corporation with deep pockets and I am sure they will find some way to sell it that will make it appear as a win for everyone involved. This career is barely holding on after regionals were let out of pandoras box and I honestly dont think it will survive another fight.

Plz old people retire now

This is all true! Cabotage is the biggest of concerns. For age 67 though, just stirring the pot. Don't believe the pilot shortage is coming, they will find another way to ruin this profession, if it isn't already.

Age 67 better be an awful rumor.

I had a long chat with a 747 FO at Delta. From what he has seen. Most guy are staying til about 63 before calling it quits. Even if the age 67 rule does pass, I highly doubt most will stay past 65.

At the pace Government moves? As far as I know, there is no movement on this even started. Even if they did, it would be awhile.

Ugh, fly til you die. What a way to live.

Well, at ASA I heard a senior capt talking about how his AME asked if he wanted to be a part of some test for age 67. Not flying past 65, as that is the rule, but just extra monitoring of his health I guess. He of course was exited.

He was exited?

Absolutely not what we are seeing at UAL. The number of guys leaving early is extremely low

Does that mean he was "taken care of"...?

Exited lol:eek:

Wouldn't be surprised...they just ruled in Canada that the 65 rule was illegal, so now they no longer have a mandatory retirement! Yay Canada! Why not increase it here or get rid of the rule! Those asses have already screwed up this industry with giving away the future of this industry...why not continue to screw us! Go get'em boyz!

The Baby-Boomers ruined everything in general.

Here's a thought: Retire when you feel like it. Live a simple life within your means and squirrel away part of your paycheck everyday for the rest of your life. Depend on no company to guarantee you a handsome retirement check. Flying 'til you die is just greedy unless you have a good reason to push yourself that hard. Always be ready to walk away from a job with nothing but what you've saved and your experience.

I read these types of threads from time to time. I'm just trying to get on the same level as everyone else and understand where you are coming from. We everyone refers to "These People", who are we talking about? Is it the union pushing for this or is it management? I can't imagine why any company would want this. This keeps the payroll super high with mega senior guys doing practically nothing. Not the ideal employee as far as the bean counters are concerned. We all know that if lots of guys started retiring due to old age, there are butt loads of new hire pilots ready to back fill the line and plenty of qualified guys to upgrade. This would ultimately lower costs right?

Unions have no clout in this industry so I can't imagine they will get the job done even if they are pushing for it.

Guess I'm a little confused.

Age has nothing to do with "sitting around doing nothing". If a 5th year captain was number one on the list, he would have that same great schedule. I think companies would be happy to pay top payscale instead of training cost. I read (dont know who accurate this is) that every 1 retirement at AA triggers 6 training events. Thats alot of doubt.

This is similar to what I heard. However, it was Delta pilots.

Not going to happen... Stop panicking lol not sure if we're going to have a shortage anyway with all these flight reductions and mergers. At least not at the major levels. Hopefully regional airlines will go away along with the pilot wages that are equivalent to a practical joke.

Especially parenthood.

Unfortunately in aviation it ain't that simple.
I just flew with a late 50s guy that NEEDS to retire. It was an ordeal on every leg but yet he thinks every leg was just peachy.

Haha I agree with you. Yet there are FEW Capts in their 30's that I think they should do aviation a favor and leave. Felt like I'm the one doing twice the work and half the pay and keeping HIM in check so I don't get a violation or God forbid cause accident and hurt others.

"fly till u die" tattooed on your face.

This is false. Most are staying until they are 65. The ones leaving early are not leaving by choice (usually medical problems).

Really? That's a pretty inaccurate statement considering we aren't even 5 years into age 65 yet. Not to mention the 163 guys that voluntarily retired before Age 65 between last August & Jan 1st. ;)

On the flip side I'm sure there are quite a few captains out there that have flown with F.Os who should just hang it up too. Probably should have never started flying. Seat doesn't matter. Some people just suck as a pilot and will never admit to it. Age just makes it worse.

There are no studies, there are no current lawsuits, there is no move by ICAO to raise its current age. There is no study at Delta. This entire thread is a figment of the imagination of a few individuals. The usual suspects get bored if they are not stirring some kind of pot. 99 percent of what they post can be quickly verified with google or a few phone calls.

There are significant training costs that are delayed/saved by increasing retirement age. This varies depending on the airline - Southwest only saves two training events (one upgrade, one new hire) but the legacies have reaped significant savings by delaying multiple training events per retirement.
There are other cost savings that aren't as quanitifiable as training costs. Getting more productive years out of pilots increases the overall supply of pilots which helps depress wages.
The problem we now face with another age increase is that stealth organizations such as IATA will be pushing for higher retirement ages. AARP, the most powerful lobby in DC, will be happy to join forces with any organization pushing for age increases. And let's not forget the politicians - they'll happily support higher retirement ages because it allows them to kick the social security time bomb down the road a little further.

The next age increase could happen very quickly with little advance warning. Ask some Europeans how quickly retirement ages increased over there. As a result of their debt crisis Spain, Greece, Germany, Denmark, Italy and others have increased their retirement age.

I agree. Without ICAO in the lead or at the very least one of the ringleaders, this is fantasy.

I've been monitoring retirements at United since the new limit was enacted. There have been an average of less than 2 per month since it started. The latest System Schedule Committee report shows 2 retirements in November. Prior to the age change, we were seeing ~25 retirements/month.
I'll be happy to dig through the reports and post the exact retirement numbers for United over the last two years if you do the same, including airline and monthly numbers. You never stated the airline for the 163 retirements. I'm assuming that you're only referring to Delta numbers since that's where you're employed. If you've added AMR numbers into that tally, I've got some 'news' for you about a special circustance that caused the numbers to spike.

Yeah, and I was told that I'd never notice the age change.
Most would retire at 62.
And no one would get furloughed.
I'm 2 3/4 years into my current furlough.

How hard do you think it would be to get ICAO on board with another age increase? Especially in light of the world financial crisis?

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana

Working to 65 is self-evidence of a career that backfired IMO, whether by personal mismanagement or circumstantial shortcomings endemic to said career (i.e. crappy career by design). Either way, not an enviable condition for me, even if you were at the helm of the god-dam--ed Space Shuttle. Working out of economic necessity or lack of outside interests past 60 sounds awful. I know every boomer out there likes to politically paint Gen X/Y/Z ers as becoming in their 60s the equivalent of virile 20 year olds, as leverage to politically push the working age further and further. Total BS. I know I'll be just as sick and tired of doing something as my parents were at 55. And my health will be +/- one sigma from the tired a_sses they were at 55.

Looking at pilots in their 50s I have no substantive reason to believe I'll be substantially in better physical shape than they are today, and God knows I wouldn't want to be doing their job at 55.. and they don't either, it's just that they got caught with their pants down in a crappy career. To suggest I not learn from their experience would be gratuitously unwise.

The problem with this theory is that some guys get torpedoed by circumstances beyond their control. Right, Andy? I guess you're making the argument that airline piloting is a crappy career by design.

If that's what you're shooting for, I'd agree...

Every junior whiner I know that *****es about age 65 also says that now, since all the old guys are keeping them junior for another 5 years, they will now have to work til 65 to make up for it.

Seems to me they ought to be quitting sooner than later since they're so much better at planning their retirements and they also have a lot more time to recover from getting the rug yanked out from under them.

TW