Jerry Sandusky is available.

Ignorance here too. Had a buddy go through this. Look up disease. Child molesters do not have a disease.

The Definition of Alcoholism, August 26, 1992, Morse and Flavin 268 (8): 1012

Many argue that the illness at the center of it all is ADDICTION - - whatever that addiction may be.

USMCFLYR

That doesn't even make any sense. Moving on

Spoken like someone who has no knowledge on the subject. Thanks for your worthless addition to this thread.

This disease/illness/what ever you want to call it is not curable, but it IS treatable. The solution, complete abstinence for the rest of your life. Thats where the HIMS program comes into play. The program helps you achieve that goal. There is over a 90% recovery rate for pilots in the program as compared to less than 50% for regular people. The pilots that enter this program bust their tails to get back in the cockpit. They end up being some of the best employee's/pilots out there because they had to really work hard to get back.

I know a few of these guys/gals. I would put my life in their hands by riding on their aircraft anytime anywhere.

Howdy God, thanks for finally revealing yourself. Who'd a thunk it would be on a silly aviation forum.

I feel ya brother. Best part about being drunk, driving. When in doubt, turn right. Yup, that's the ol' sh!t handle. I'd suggest wrapping your arm around it right now.

I agree with everything you've said here and understand that it is an illness that must be treated. That said where do we draw the line? When the pilot shows up to the van? When they gets on the plane? When they operate the flight? After they creats an unsafe situation during flight due to his/her condition? After they cause an incident/accident? How long do we allow the individual to use the "it's an illness" reason to show up to work not fit to fly?

I disagree. Two of my family members experienced this. I have seen one deal with their ups and downs first hand. There has been numerous times where we thought one was cured. One even had such a bad relapse that they can never drive again. They have experienced court action, jail time, fines, divorce, and family intervention. After over a decade of this I would be nervous to let any of them work in a similar industry. The truth is it takes a lot of hard work for them to stay sober and it is not that difficult for them to be pushed over the edge again.

But you and others are right, there must be something wrong with me for not wanting to share the cockpit or fly in the back of a plane with someone whose judgment has caused them to try to fly drunk before. The fact that I don’t agree with you means I know nothing of the subject.:rolleyes:

If that was the case, did this pilot declare "suicidal thoughts" on his last medical exam? I'm pretty sure that's grounding. I can sympathize with the pilot, but anyone who is this sick should NOT be flying!

I didn't see anything in either the CNN or the Yahoo story that said that he failed any kind of drug or alcohol test. All it said was he was pulled off the flight. How do we know this wasn't just an unfounded accusation?

First paragraph of CNN story says he failed a blood-alcohol test.

What did his crew do in this matter. The FO and FA just sat with him in the van and said nothing while the driver noticed all of this. They could of said call in sick and go back to the hotel and sleep it off. Or the other crew members call in sick. That flight should have never been able to leave on time

If he was out I'd go as far as to say the rest were out

At 5am in the morning, I keep my distance and kind of chill by myself, I honestly can say Im not sure I would notice or not.

Well as usual... lets wait to see what the actual facts are before stones are cast.

I'm sure there will be many different opinions on the punishment to be meted if the chappy is guilty as charged.

Chappy Sinclair?


Iron Eagle - Chappy Down - YouTube

Do I have compassion for alcoholics? Some, yes. However, I will never recognize it as a disease. Disorder, maybe. Cancer is a disease. Willingly dumping a fifth of vodka down the hatch isn't a disease. Calling it a disease is just the sentiment of todays world: it's not MY fault that I drink.......it's a disease. Bull crapola. Each and everyone of us have free will. Leukemia, that's a disease.

This crew was rude to the van driver the night before. This is third hand from one of our crews that was on the shuttle with them. You learn a lot about someone by how they treat the people that they don't have to be nice to.

Just because somebody uses bad judgement while using alcohol doesn't make him or her an alcoholic. Who knows what is going on in this person's life maybe just maybe they made a mistake. What happens to Doctors or Nurses when they show up for work drunk do they automatically lose there jobs never to return. I don't think so. Give this person a break, nobody is perfect.

I love third hand stories. So say this crew was on at a minimum of 14 hours of layover in OMA. Long enough to go out and get drunk? That would mean the van driver would have been on duty from 3pm all the way until 7am or later?

Whose to say the van driver's shift doesn't run from 6AM to 4PM?

Think McFly. Think.

You don't get it my friend. People far smarter than you and me have studied this. Their answer: disease. Your problem is that you see it as a moral delinquency. I assume you're not a total idiot and you would agree with me that type 1 diabetes is a disease. Just like an alcoholic the body reaches a chemical imbalance and exceeds a threshold. Now the disease is out of the hands of the individual. Well, type 1 diabetes cannot be cured...it can be managed. When a diabetic goes into shock we don't armchair QB them and say bull crapola it's not my fault I go into shock. The individuals that think like you simply don't get it. Calling BS on something you don't comprehend...not the smartest.

We get paid the big bucks so we don't make mistakes like that no? LoL

But seriously, wait til a drunk driver hurts or even kills someone you love. We'll see how forgiving you are then.

Amen.

There is a time and place to hit the sauce, it's not at work. I feel bad for the dude because he is going to lose a lot from this, but I don't feel bad for an alcoholic, or anyone for that matter, who endangers peoples lives because they cannot control themselves.

I'm also not saying this guy was indeed an alcoholic, I'm speaking in general terms.

There is plenty to learn from this event. One of which is to NOT bring up your fun the night before on the hotel van or lobby. Have fun on the overnight, watch your consumption and keep your mouth shut the next day.

The fact of the matter is they didn't get in the cockpit and crash the plane and kill people. It is no different than somebody taking the keys away from somebody who thinks they can drive home after a night at the bar or party. They did make the mistake of thinking they could drive but somebody intervened. A person isn't guilty of the crime until they commit it, and conspiring to drive drunk and not is not a crime. I don't know what the regs say about flying. I myself don't drink on the overnights and reserve that for my home life. For all we know they stopped 12 hours before but were just to drunk to sober up.

Getting fired from your regional FO job is losing a lot? The future is so bright for this industry . . . all those potential wages he is going to lose. He'll retire with more in his bank account in his new career than the majority of us regional pilots selling our souls for 30K a year with no end in sight.

Or go to Federal prison, either way a win huh?

Thought it was the captain

No point in going too deep deep into this but I'm one of the XJT crew members who was on the hotel van with this crew the night before. Our layover was a little over 9 hours and they took the shuttle 30 minutes before us the next morning. I don't know of any pilots who are going out to the bars for even one drink on a minimum rest overnight, especially with a show that early. Whatever happened, I doubt it occurred at the hotel bar.

Somebody was bringing their own bottle of Grandpa's Cough syrup, methinks...

At my airline we are allowed to drink on DH flights so long as we are not legal to operate a flight when we get in. Just sayin that's a lousy reason to fire a guy if he wasn't working a flight after the DH.

So is it correct what someone else posted, that this pilot was rude to the driver? Just curious.

When an individual starts learning to fly, they become acquainted with the both the physiological effects and FARs as they pertain to booze. The physiological effects and FARs as they pertain to booze are pointed out to every new hire at their first and successive airline where they become employed.

If they can’t follow the rules, the way the rest the responsible pilots do, then adios. There are way more responsible people out there who may be more deserving of a job then a boozer who lacks the maturity and discipline required for the position.

After 36 years of flying, I have more compassion for the poor responsible schlamiel on the street looking for a job than a life boozer.

So they don't consider the DH as company assigned business?

Actually, that was another crew. One of the pilots from the crew you were with in the van got reassigned to cover the flight after the incident.

I call BS. The crew in question was not on RR. They came in the afternoon before.

It is in our FOM, it says if we are not legal to work within 8 hours of arrival we can drink on the DH flight.

It specifically says a pilot may consume alcohol while deadheading to or from a company assignment. (obviously not in uniform)

I have always felt the need to drive fast. usually I can control it, but sometimes I can't. I just look down at the speedometer and I'm speeding. Something about the brain activity I experience driving fast makes me want it more. When I'm stuck in traffic, even when I have no place to be, my blood pressure goes up for no reason at all. The fact that I can not control my "need for speed" must make it a disease.

If I get pulled over, what disease should I tell the cop I suffer from?