I flew with this guy about 4 years ago. He was my FO. He was (and still is) incompetent. You are wasting your breathe blaming alcoholism and are wasting efforts of sympathy. He was the hated guy through the base. He deserves 100% what happened to him. I'm glad it didn't involve passengers or other innocent people.

People get weeded out in this industry if you don't make the cut (1 way or another). I can honestly say I feel no sympathy for him. I sat next to him in the cockpit. It is a shame that clowns like this need to ruin the image of the pilot. Pretty sure the regionals have had it bad enough in the public view lately without having this clown act like a 14 year old idiot. Best of luck

I think the issue is if you feel like you cannot control your drinking, just do yourself and everyone else a huge favor and call in sick. Your family, coworkers and customers truly will thank you. Drinking excessively prior to flying shows poor judgement. Showing up for work after excessive drinking shows pure stupidity and lack of respect for everyone.

Having been involved with the HIMS Program for ten years, I can honestly say that the majority think they're totally in control of their drinking. THEY don't have a problem... As Dr. Lynn Hankes says, "this is the only disease that tells you that you don't have a disease."

Going to the Edge of Current Neuroscience of Addiction (1 of 10) - YouTube

Watch it (and the rest of the presentation)- I know Kevin personally and his is quite a journey.

I would agree, I was fortunate to see a presentation by Kevin a few years back, it is well worth the time.

Good article: http://wearealpa.org/SAS/HIMS.pdf

Again, please answer what I wrote in post 113.

What part of this "disease" forces someone to get behind the controls of a car or an airplane??????

You want to drink or take drugs, go ahead if you can't help yourself. Convince me that getting dressed and going flying or driving is part of this disease.

If you can't control your drinking, you sure as hell can't decide to "call in sick".

Well on the other hand, do regionals attract people that act like 14 year old idiots?

Did you watch the video and read the article?

I've spent the last ten years recertifying pilots who've had their licenses revoked by the FAA and the majority have been mainline guys. Perhaps it's because Chemical Dependency is a progressive disease (like diabetes); perhaps there are more mainline guys than regional pilots. I guess it doesn't matter. We've all had our "doh" moments (see your spelling/ syntax above), some more spectacular than others.

Now, back under your bridge.

If you have ever drank too much you should know that poor decision making is a side effect of drugs and alcohol. Did you goto a commuter college?

You summed it up right there in your first sentence. I know several friends who could be classified as "Functional Alcoholics" They both do not drink on a work day EVER. They know they will lose their jobs. But on their off days drink like fishes but also do not drink and drive either. If they are driving it is one beer two max. They get a designated driver or stay over. That is why I have no sympathy for anyone busted on the job. You all know the risks and there are more than a few instances of pilots being busted drinking and trying to fly the outcome is never good. Me I learned through my friends I also never drink if i know I am going to drive and I certainly am not going to do it before work. That "disease " story I am not buying it..A disease is something like cancer not alcoholism. Alcoholism even if you want to classify it that way is still a choice..Cancer is not. Even if you have the "disease" of alcoholism you can still be responsible and not drink and drive or drink and fly.

Ya know its a slippery slope. I think addiction is the disease, alcoholism is just one facet of that. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex......they are all addictions and I think that is the disease that some are speaking of. Perhaps certain aspects of addiction are more popular or are more prevalent than others......i.e. alcoholism vs. gambling but its the ADDICTION that is lying in wait in some people hence the label of disease. To downplay as otherwise is irresponsible at best.

Ever hear of lung cancer caused by 30+ years of smoking unfiltered cigarettes? As I asked HMP to provide some research to support her claim similar to yours I'll ask the same of you. Can you provide something even remotely proof positive of your point of view? I've struggled myself with this distinction so I dug fairly heavily into it myself and I am not able to ignore the medical facts of the research. Do you base your thought process on anything other than "....I think....."? One last litmus test. I assume that you trust your family doctor. Ask them the question.

USMCFLYR

From what you said following this statement, it would appear that the first sentence was the only sentence you read.

Excellent post!

Well I can tell you that in my 35+ years of being of legal drinking age, when I did drink I knew enough not to drive and for the life of me I can't see how anyone could think they could fly an aircraft. And if you are telling me that it's not their fault they think they are OK to fly well I call BS on that. Getting dressed and getting behind the controls is NOT part of the "disease".

And no, I did not go to a commuter college for any of my 3 bachelor degrees.

Just read that a Pinnacle crew got pulled off a flight in Grand Forks, ND for suspected drinking. Sounds like it was more than 1 crew member involved. Not a good week for drinking/flying.

Not quite that much drama Geraldo.....

"The flight attendant is the focus of the investigation. The pilot and the copilot were not," Williams said, adding that the flight attendant has been "relieved of duty pending further investigation" without pay.

but being responsible enough not to close down a bar and hop in a 6am van isnt?

did somebody leave their sarcasm detector at the hotel?;)

I bet I could fly just fine with a .03% BAC. I drive with it all the time.

Seriously? Please tell me you are being sarcastic. :confused:

No. I am not. You would be confused if you are not aware that you can drive with a BAC as high as .07% and still be legal. At least in the state I live. Do you think a .03 feels much different than .02? At my airline we can fly with .02 or less. The pilot in this article wasn't necessarily legally drink. Just over the limit for his company. Yet the title of this thread is "another drunk pilot". Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

Goody goody for you. I can't imagine any of us want to fly with someone who has been drinking. I'm fairly confident that none of the passengers want to as well. I hope you don't kill anyone while you're out there acting like a fool in your car.

Haha. Learn the law buddy. You don't have a choice as long as that pilot has followed the rules with regards to how many hours before duty and is not over the limit.

I'm not saying it is ok to fly drunk, but I'd be willing to bet that a guy flying with .03% is just as safe if not safer than the guy on leg 7 and duty hour 15:30... I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I remember reading something a few years ago where the article compared alertness of tired/fatigued humans to those impaired by booze. It even broke down and had hours awake alertness compared to a BAC level alertness.

I've always wanted to do a study, but I know it will never happen, but I'd like to do a "sober/rested" checkride to set up a baseline, then do a checkride after 7 legs and 15 hours of duty, and then a checkride after a few beers. I have a feeling that the tired checkride and beer checkride would look eerily similar... To the point where looking at the ILS print outs it would probably be hard to tell which one was wobbly due to being tired and which was wobbly due to beers.

http://gototrial.com/wp-content/uplo...epravation.pdf

Not the exact article I was looking for because I remember it being much shorter and having a chart with different BACs vs hours awake. Google did show a bunch of results on this topic though.

Crackpipe,

Good luck with driving while impaired.



Just WOW

Thank you, kind sir.

:D Heck, I know I play video games and shoot pool better after a couple of beers. I like your idea of doing a checkride after putting a couple down the hatch, it'd make for some interesting material in recurrent.

...don't forget bowling !!!

How about darts? :eek:

CrakPipe is onto something here. Actually, your driving abilities improve up until .04 BrAC, above .05 BrAC they drastically dimish.

Read up on some studies, the research is there.

it's not the liquor that helps your driving abilities...you are doing something the better half of your brain says you shouldn't be doing, so you are being ultra cautious....using cruise control, turn signals, complete stops, not texting, driving like grandma to keep from getting pulled over.

Sounds like a bunch of prudes participating in this discussion. Learn the laws. .07 or less is not drunk driving. I can tell some of you are scared of alcohol.

And that's a bad thing because ... :confused:

scared prudes? no some of us just aren't dumb enough to admit we drive impared or are "I know how to drink and drive and skirt the law" on a public forum that any lawyer/jury will have a field day with when you injure someone in an accident and blow .07. You say what's the big deal between .03 and .07? Well ask the cop what the big deal is between .07 and .08. You sound like a 13 year old challenging us to a drinking contest or the frat boy at the bar that thinks he can kick everyones ass then gets knocked out by a figure skater. And tell the laws to my friend who spent 2 weeks in jail for DUI for blowing .06......people are affected differently, you don't have to be legally drunk to be affected by it (and be punished for it).

I don't recall implying it was bad.....

Isn't that why it's called legally drunk? I'm not calling you a liar but your friend may have lied to you. There has got to be more to that story than driving with .06 BAC and then spending 2 weeks in jail.