Pinnacle Concession Update
 

"Negotiations Update
No negotiations have taken place this week because the company has made a permanent 5% wage cut a precondition to further discussions. We are not willing to agree to that precondition because none of the financial data we have reviewed supports it. We continue to be willing to meaningfully address our company’s challenges and remain available to meet at any time, but no future talks are currently scheduled."

Ok folks there it is. The union is calling the bluff and it looks like we may not even vote. So one of two things will happen: SM will file ch. 11 or we're in the clear. No more vote talk, it's now time to see the company's hand.

The issue of pay was never going to be the precipitating factor in whether or not PCL files for CH 11. The issue is and always was due to management's failure to negotiate a favorable (for PCL) contract with Continental. This is all just a very poorly orchestrated shamruptcy. +1 for ALPA

Glad to hear guys!

+1

Going after employee pay that is already low is a tacit admission of management incompetence. They have no idea what to do; so they decide the optimal way to cut costs is to have their employees subsidize the operation....

btw, I've seen this movie before---if the company is going to go bankrupt, it will do so regardless of pilot pay..i.e. pilot pay will not push a company into bankruptcy any more than it can keep a company out of bankruptcy. If you cut pay now, you are just lowering the starting point for your "future" pay cuts if the company actually does go bankrupt.

5% up front as a precondition? Funny. There's no guarantee that if you give them their 5% that the further negotiations will yield anything meaningful.....keep holding the line.

5% precondition, they can go shuvit.....glad to see our union held that line hard !

We don't know half the story to this messs. I'm still putting my money on a BK. I've heard the company really does want to avoid it but I'm not buying it. They have some plan they are working on and I'm sure the end result won't be good for most of us.

So they are with holding the 4Q results because why? Hmmmm....(rubs chin)

Heard ASA is going to be taking over Pinnacles 900 routes....... just what I heard from someone at ASA. I can see it happening. Pref bid coming out end of April will show this.

So most likely the planes will end up in JFK or DTW after all? I have heard that rumor for awhile now...

ASA can have ATL. Kudos to the union.

I hope that we can keep those planes. If the ATL 900's are losing money, they would continue to lose money regardless if they fly in ATL, JFK, DTW etc.. The CPA needs to be reworked to make those planes profitable, just like with the Qs. If it can be reworked, the airplanes will be sent back.

As stated, that sounds like a refusal to bargain in good faith, and it could be ruled an unfair labor practice. They can be hard-nosed about a demand, but I don't think they can refuse to continue negotiating. :confused:

Very true, I am curious if they could be flown under the XJ contract?

Shut em down boys and girls. If a company can't make a profit based on the slumlord rates you're already making, there's no point working for them.

Plus, you're already subsidizing the operation quite a bit. Actually, mainline is even subsidizing the operation at their rates.

Maybe if a few of these regional carriers are sent to the furnace, the mainline won't have much of an option to outsource anymore and the regional pilots will get picked up on the seniority list that you want.

I really hope these regionals have a hard time filling seats once age 65 finally kicks in come December.

Dude we get the point, your probably about the 1000th person to come out of left field with this crap and make multiple copy and paste posts. Where do you work? Maybe you should shut your own place down to help the cause...Any who back to the circus

We already know our april flying hours and destinations. Also our 900 flying out of atlanta isn't "normal" flying. From class 2 nav to special ops procedures from the faa for our over water ops it would be hard for someone to take that flying over quickly unless they were already certified for those sorts of ops. We were able to get all the certifications delta wanted us to get so we could fly more efficient routes to the international destinations our 900's go out of atlanta.

not saying change couldn't come. the flying could be flown out of jfk or detroit and the flights could transition through atlanta.

If this is how Menke and his boys are acting with us I can only imagine how childish they're being with Unical. Thing is, I'm not sure if Unical cares if we fly them or not. Im sure GoJet would be all over it.

Agree 100 percent.

wish Eagles union stood up for the pilots half this much.

Heck,

Maybe I should change my tune? What is your minimum?

Would you PAY the airline for the chance to work there?

Do you work at pinnacle?

As for the multiple posts, I had 2 windows open at once and posted on the wrong thread(was meant for this one), so I deleted the one on the other thread. It was only up for maybe 20 seconds b4 I deleted it, so...

My point is it doesn't matter what pay cut you take, you're basically working for free at pinnacle already. Paycuts won't save pinnacle.

All the other regionals will be killing for pilots within a year or two. If you and other regional pilots hold out IMO, you can either get hired at another regional with a zippy upgrade to CA, or get hired at DL/UA/SWA. You can't help a regional airline with a broken business model.

Actually I have the same opinion for the guys at AA. Their pilot costs are basically industry neutral at this point, even with their pensions. In about a year, they will be at the bottom of the industry even without cuts, so there's no point in concessions there either.

Routes or Airplanes?
900s going to other 9E bases would probably save money with consolidation of staff and other economies of scale ETC
This would mean Delta is working with 9E, something that is contrary to everything that has been said previously.

Wish I knew, I am assuming routes. Again, there are many rumors out there and things should start to move along now. Its just pathetic the way management has gone about this whole situation. Glad the union has stood its ground, hold the line!

So the company says they will not continue negotiations about the 5% pay cut unless we accept the 5% pay cut. If we take the 5% pay cut, what is there to negotiate?

I want a 6% pay raise as a pre condition to the 5% pay cut negotiations.

They would be dumb enough to agree to that then months later go "waait uh whuuut?"

Can I get an AMEN!

I herd the 900 rumor as well. Just the version I herd went like this. Delta's Skywest agreement states that for every 900 they get Delta can park ~2 200s. Delta wants out of 200s. PNCL set it up to loose money on the ATL 900s giving them an easy out. The ATL 900s go to ASA who already has all the authorizations to fly them but parks 40 200s. PNCL in return gets a sweet 200 contract with an acquisition of XJ. Hence the drama mgmt is putting through was decided years ago in an ATL board room and really no need for pilot pay cuts.
That's the rumor I herd, who knows...

So if Pinnacle becomes an all 200 fleet, how many furloughs?

No just the ATL 900, the MSA 900 are fine

So were selling those planes if thats the case? Delta doesnt own them...

I saw another thread that colgan is canceling classes. I saw us airways saabs parked at the mx hangers in DTW today. About 8 of them were parked. Why are colgan saabs on the ramp at DTW?

I know a guy that is supposed to have an interview coming up in MEM for Pinnacle soon. I'll have to ask him if he's still going or if its cancelled. I think those "US Airways" saabs are actually Mesaba Saabs that where doing flying for Airways out of LGA. That flying came to an end around Xmas time I believe. I haven't flown out of DTW much lately but I would have thought those Saabs where gone by now. Maybe they are Colgan Saabs?? I know they were looking for pilots to fly the Mesaba Saabs to Bangor Maine at least a month ago. Probably are Colgan Saabs.

Kudos to the Union for saying no to permanent pay cuts. Can't wait to see how this all plays out. What was the time line for pay cuts anyway?? I thought management wanted them imposed by January sometime. Well that date has come and gone. You would think if management was true to their word about trying to avoid bankruptcy and if we are hurting that bad they would just try to work with the union on getting a pay cut through no matter the cost (meet in the middle with the union i.e. snap backs and maybe profit sharing). Like a lot of others I do believe this is heading down the road of bankruptcy and has been since the beginning. Makes you wonder how long the script has been written in advance and now they are just following it to a T. So whats the next big date that we are waiting for?? I think its the United flying deadline which is April 2nd I believe. If United says no to a long term viable contract and walks away or if Pinnacle thinks they can't make money on the flying and walks away then the crap will roll down hill pretty quick and who knows what Delta has planned for the 50 seaters.

exactly...just goes to show what a sham this whole thing is and how incompetent the management really is. "You will take this 5% pay cut. I don't care if you can save us the equivalent of 10% of your pay on training and other areas we will not talk about you saving us even more money until you give up your pay!!" Put the crack pipe down children....

Those are Mesabas, Colgan only has about 4 in Airways colors and they are obligated to the Bos EAS routes.

Those Saabs were Mesaba Saabs used in the LGA ops. Look closer and you will see they are all XJ tail numbers. That's the last of the Mesaba Saabs waiting for thier trip to BGR for return to Saab.
But the Colgan Saabs are soon to go too because of the expensive avionics upgrades that will be needed next year.

All we can do is hold the line...hopefully UAL, Delta and a few others will work with us, if not then so be it. I am just really happy to see us as a pilot group and ALPA not give in to more management B***Sh**!

If you 900 guys get any information on what they are doing with those aircraft let me know, I am curious to see how they are gonna play that card and deal with that situation.

Avionics upgrade? Never heard that one... We've done ok operating /A and I figure we will continue to go that route until they get rid of the airframes.

Someone posted awhile back that the EFIS tubes on the Saab are no longer being supported as of next year. Which would mean that the avionics would need to be upgraded as soon as we run out of spare parts.

Whether that is true or not I have no idea.