1500 rule grandfather clause, here it comes!
03-21-2012, 09:53 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ERJ right
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by HAL39
"Unidentified airlines" 
Hmmmmmm, let's do some deductive reasoning. It's not Skywest, Republic, Horizon, Comair, Pinnacolaba, Compass, AirWhiskey, Island Air, Mesa, PSA, TSA, XJet / ASA, Piedmont or Eagle due to longer upgrade times and relatively high mins for hiring.
That leaves Cape, CommutAir, GLA, and Silver airways. Though I'm willing to bet a good portion of CommutAir pilots have 1500+...which leaves only the B1900 operators....oh yea, and G7
Sounds like the testimony was a well-rounded, unbiased representation of regional FO's to me
Hmmmmmm, let's do some deductive reasoning. It's not Skywest, Republic, Horizon, Comair, Pinnacolaba, Compass, AirWhiskey, Island Air, Mesa, PSA, TSA, XJet / ASA, Piedmont or Eagle due to longer upgrade times and relatively high mins for hiring.
That leaves Cape, CommutAir, GLA, and Silver airways. Though I'm willing to bet a good portion of CommutAir pilots have 1500+...which leaves only the B1900 operators....oh yea, and G7
Sounds like the testimony was a well-rounded, unbiased representation of regional FO's to me
03-21-2012, 09:57 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: CRJ fo
Posts: 30
Seriously?! Build your time like everyone else has done, get your CFI and actually learn a thing or two! Why do you people think you should slide right into a RJ or turbo-prop? This grandfather clause B.S. is absurd! THE GENERATION OF ENTITLEMENT!
03-21-2012, 11:08 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,219
Seriously?! Build your time like everyone else has done, get your CFI and actually learn a thing or two! Why do you people think you should slide right into a RJ or turbo-prop? This grandfather clause B.S. is absurd! THE GENERATION OF ENTITLEMENT!
:-)
Last edited by coryk; 03-21-2012 at 11:21 AM.
03-21-2012, 03:36 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: yes
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by BelowMins
Unless you're referring to the 2 plane 121 operation in Guam, Cape Air shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as the above. The single pilot 402 operation is scheduled 135 and it requires the pilot to have their ATP.
03-21-2012, 04:28 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,568
If that's the way you feel, do all of us professional aviator's a favor and get the **** out of the industry. I have over 15,000 hours and try like hell every leg, every day. If you think at 1500 hrs you have earned your right to ***** and moan you are sadly mistaken.
Originally Posted by XJT Pilot
Who cares? 1500 or 250 doesn't matter because at 250 he/her is trying like hell, at 1500 they could care less and are *****ing about the POS airline there working for anyway.
Its all smoke and mirrors.
Its all smoke and mirrors.
03-21-2012, 05:21 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
My question is; how does 1500 hours of touch and goes from the right seat of a 172 going to help one to fly a transport category airplane either?
1. Decision making. When you have to make the call on things that could seriously affect people's lives (even if it's just your student), it's a big deal.
2. Emergency procedures. When the **** hits the fan for the first time in your career, it shouldn't be with 50 paying passengers in the back.
03-21-2012, 06:20 PM
#27
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
Posts: 849
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The best way to build time to become an airline pilot is to serve as one. The flight deck is a system of mentor and apprentice. It only takes one guy to fly the plane. The other is there as back up and to learn. Not to be a second captain.
The dimwit public thinks that they are getting two fully qualified and capable pilots up front, not one pilot and an apprentice (and this is a reasonable expectation). The aircraft are certified for two pilots, not for one plus an informed observer.
To be an effective back up, you need to be capable of doing the job yourself, not feeling your way through with both hands.
The best way to become an effective member of a professional aircrew is to first become an experienced pilot, then apply those and other skills in a crew environment.
03-21-2012, 07:30 PM
#28
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Grateful to be where I am and ready to move on
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
My favorite part:
"The only place you can get experience is in the cockpit of an airplane experiencing all that goes on," Kuwitsky said. "Now you can get 3,000 or 4,000 hours of experience in a crop-duster — that has no translation to our operation."
My question is; how does 1500 hours of touch and goes from the right seat of a 172 going to help one to fly a transport category airplane either? Most of the things that a new pilot does to build time do not apply to airline flying at all.
The best way to build time to become an airline pilot is to serve as one. The flight deck is a system of mentor and apprentice. It only takes one guy to fly the plane. The other is there as back up and to learn. Not to be a second captain.
Skyhigh
"The only place you can get experience is in the cockpit of an airplane experiencing all that goes on," Kuwitsky said. "Now you can get 3,000 or 4,000 hours of experience in a crop-duster — that has no translation to our operation."
My question is; how does 1500 hours of touch and goes from the right seat of a 172 going to help one to fly a transport category airplane either? Most of the things that a new pilot does to build time do not apply to airline flying at all.
The best way to build time to become an airline pilot is to serve as one. The flight deck is a system of mentor and apprentice. It only takes one guy to fly the plane. The other is there as back up and to learn. Not to be a second captain.
Skyhigh
-First off, don't knock the many different flying jobs out there. While a crop dusting pilot may not have the highest level of proficiency flying an ILS, he will be a pilot that is very precise and comfortable with recovering from unusual attitudes as might be encountered in an upset in a larger airplane. He will also have alot of hands on flying that may put him ahead of his peers when accomplishing performance maneuvers such as a V1 Cut.
-The fact that you are questioning the validity of flying a 172 with respect to flying a larger airplane tells me that you honestly need more time flying a 172 to understand that even after 1500 hours, you won't have it all figured out. It is at about that point that you will probably realise that you have much more to learn. Then you will be ready to move on with open mind and ready to learn as much as you can as you progress on to a new aircraft and an operation that involves new challenges.
-While most Captains are certainly capable of controling the aircraft while operating as a single pilot, most if not all will tell you that operating a transport category aircraft especially in the part 121 world is a two pilot operation. Automation malfunctions. Pilots make mistakes that are almost always caught by the other pilot. While there is always mentoring going on, it is not supposed to be a single pilot operation with a brand new pilot grasping to the static wicks on the tail trying to keep up.
Again, this is meant to answer your questions above and is not meant to be condescending in any way. I wish you the best in your current flying and ask that you try to learn as much as you can early on while trying to have fun. You are now building the foundation of the pilot you will become for the rest of your career.
I wish you the best of luck in persuit of you career. Above all else, try to thoroughly enjoy your journey along the way. At the beginning, that is why we all started this career. The people who seem satisfied at the end are the ones who enjoyed the flying and experiences along the way.
Good Luck.
03-21-2012, 07:52 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B73N A
Posts: 344
I know there is no crystal ball but how will this exactly play out? Will regionals get rid of FOs that don't meet the 1500 hrs. Do the airlines see the impending dilemma coming? I'm kinda stuck in the middle of this as a CFi with only 800 TT, guys ahead of me are getting hired but with the mins going up its like I keep missing the train! I've just come to the realization I'm SOL till I hit 1500. I'm grateful at least to have a gig that's pushing me closer.
03-21-2012, 08:36 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Wheel Landing
I'm writing the following to honestly try to help you understand the answer to your questions.
-First off, don't knock the many different flying jobs out there. While a crop dusting pilot may not have the highest level of proficiency flying an ILS, he will be a pilot that is very precise and comfortable with recovering from unusual attitudes as might be encountered in an upset in a larger airplane. He will also have alot of hands on flying that may put him ahead of his peers when accomplishing performance maneuvers such as a V1 Cut.
-The fact that you are questioning the validity of flying a 172 with respect to flying a larger airplane tells me that you honestly need more time flying a 172 to understand that even after 1500 hours, you won't have it all figured out. It is at about that point that you will probably realise that you have much more to learn. Then you will be ready to move on with open mind and ready to learn as much as you can as you progress on to a new aircraft and an operation that involves new challenges.
-While most Captains are certainly capable of controling the aircraft while operating as a single pilot, most if not all will tell you that operating a transport category aircraft especially in the part 121 world is a two pilot operation. Automation malfunctions. Pilots make mistakes that are almost always caught by the other pilot. While there is always mentoring going on, it is not supposed to be a single pilot operation with a brand new pilot grasping to the static wicks on the tail trying to keep up.
Again, this is meant to answer your questions above and is not meant to be condescending in any way. I wish you the best in your current flying and ask that you try to learn as much as you can early on while trying to have fun. You are now building the foundation of the pilot you will become for the rest of your career.
I wish you the best of luck in persuit of you career. Above all else, try to thoroughly enjoy your journey along the way. At the beginning, that is why we all started this career. The people who seem satisfied at the end are the ones who enjoyed the flying and experiences along the way.
Good Luck.
-First off, don't knock the many different flying jobs out there. While a crop dusting pilot may not have the highest level of proficiency flying an ILS, he will be a pilot that is very precise and comfortable with recovering from unusual attitudes as might be encountered in an upset in a larger airplane. He will also have alot of hands on flying that may put him ahead of his peers when accomplishing performance maneuvers such as a V1 Cut.
-The fact that you are questioning the validity of flying a 172 with respect to flying a larger airplane tells me that you honestly need more time flying a 172 to understand that even after 1500 hours, you won't have it all figured out. It is at about that point that you will probably realise that you have much more to learn. Then you will be ready to move on with open mind and ready to learn as much as you can as you progress on to a new aircraft and an operation that involves new challenges.
-While most Captains are certainly capable of controling the aircraft while operating as a single pilot, most if not all will tell you that operating a transport category aircraft especially in the part 121 world is a two pilot operation. Automation malfunctions. Pilots make mistakes that are almost always caught by the other pilot. While there is always mentoring going on, it is not supposed to be a single pilot operation with a brand new pilot grasping to the static wicks on the tail trying to keep up.
Again, this is meant to answer your questions above and is not meant to be condescending in any way. I wish you the best in your current flying and ask that you try to learn as much as you can early on while trying to have fun. You are now building the foundation of the pilot you will become for the rest of your career.
I wish you the best of luck in persuit of you career. Above all else, try to thoroughly enjoy your journey along the way. At the beginning, that is why we all started this career. The people who seem satisfied at the end are the ones who enjoyed the flying and experiences along the way.
Good Luck.
I like the advice given Wheel, but it is PAINFULLY evident that you have responded to a post from a user who you have no idea of his history!
This could be fun if Sky ventures here again, but you are more likely to find him in other sections sharing his wisdom with what he calls his 'converts'.
USMCFLYR
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