Pinnacle Mangement Bankruptcy Proposal
 

-elimination of the minimum day
-management option to cap all pilot line awards at 75 hours
-a reduction in per diem
-10 days off for reserve pilots
-relief on maximum line ranges
-the virtual elimination of premium pay and open time
-more expensive and less favorable health insurance
-the elimination of ESL, premium sharing for loss of license and LTD
-greatly reduced 401(k) match
-decreased pay rates for all pilots: 5.8% reduction in for all Captains and CRJ900 FOs and 2.0% for all other FOs (which results in a combined rate for FOs)
-no across-the-board rate increases until 1/1/2014

PLUS much, much more.

They basically went line by line through the contract and made everything worse.

Ouch I am so happy I left. I nominate Menke for TOTD, everyday.... Good luck guys

wow that will make a lot of people bail if this were to happen. I might as well go to great lakes for an upgrade

What an embarrassment. Disgusting.

Am I reading this right, no open time at all? Not that I'm looking to pick anything up. I just wanted to make sure I'm reading it right. So everyone will be on 75 hrs pay.

Bail and go WHERE? Pilots for the most part are mostly all talk and will not take a stand If they are short and put trips in open time see how quick it gets picked up meanwhile their fellow pilots are out on the street. Management knows that pilots will sell their Mommas and their first born to get ahead.

I was expecting much worse.

Remember this is their swing for the fences. You can thank Delta for strangling this organization into BK and eliminating two fleet types.

This is pretty deplorable. Glad I'm outta' here. My sincere apologies to those sr. folks staying. Being a 2nd year Colgan FO, I really don't have a horse in the race. Just glad I made it out. Good luck everyone!

I agree. This is where they could have gone for the kill and instead are just taking us out at the knees. I am 100% sure they will get less than half of what they are going for. No judge is going to go for this. It would put pinnacle at an unfair advantage to all its competitors. The judge has to look at our contract and then compare it to industry average to bring its cost more in line with that of the industry. Our "new and improved" contract was below industry average anyway the day we signed it so I am not to worried about the judge thinking we are raping this company for all its worth.

I was expecting much worse...

Industry Average does not equal Industry Bottom!

How did Delta put 9E into BK? Seems to me it was PT & SM. I agree Delta eliminated 2 fleet types. But why wouldn't they? Those 2 fleet types provided lift for their largest competitor. Why would Delta provide $$$ to keep a competitors lift aloft?

pinnacle also needs to be a viable option for a place to come to work in the coming years for anyone looking for a job at a regional. Whether or not you want to admit to it, there is going to be a large depletion of pilots from the regional carriers and pncl isn't going to want to go so low as to detract from potential new hires down the line.

If this is their starting point then they don't expect it to be even close to this bad for the final proposal for this reason alone.

Jeez. Sorry, guys. They knew when they agreed to the contract that they couldn't afford it. Not because it was anything above what you should have had, but because their business plan and way of doing business doesn't support paying people a living wage. Silly pilots...you need to eat, too?

I have heard a rumor that some of the stakeholders are banding together to try to force 9E into liquidation so that they can recover some of their money. I haven't researched it. Has anyone else heard/read anything about that? Not trying to get anyone riled up, just asking.

A lot of the senior guys stick around for the great 401k, they really hammered the match for the senior guys (currently 125% match on up to 10% of earnings, proposed 50% on up to 10% earnings) factor in almost 6% pay cuts and other contract language (loss of min day and most of the over time) I would say this proposal would cost some of the real senior guys at least $20-40k next year.

Looks like they want some language added in for aircraft up to 86 seats. "Please Delta don't give the regionals bigger airplanes".

Much worse? This is just the brief over view and I am not sure how much worse you were looking for. QoL hit, massive benefits hit, less pay with no way to really make it back...should I go on?

Why do guys always try and justify this crap instead of standing up for what they are worth?

Maybe the company's way to get the higher payroll guys to move on to the legacies/majors?

Because they are scared, and with not really any other option out there!

They are probably only looking at the pay hit. think 5.8% is not much more then 5% they were asking. All of it is crap. Not sure what the worst part is. The loss of min day no pay raise until 2014......? I guess it is all crap.

Well, you know, slave labor, indentured servitude....


If this is the business plan they have...?

I've said this before, at some point, people believe keeping the company afloat is better than having a good job, even if it means hurting the rest of the industry. Execs love this, and plenty of businesses are artificially propped up many times over, after the should have burned out and their markets taken by someone else or a new company (not a facade of a "new" company).

Step 1, Cut pay.
Step 2, ???
Step 3, Profit!

Don't forget after 2014 it's only 1.5%+ per year. How much is inflation? So we get a net pay cut every year after 2014.

Pinnacle could lower compensation significantly, and there would still be a line out the door of guys willing to do it. Silver Airways starts FO's @ 19/hr, and there are plenty of guys who will take the job. As Jonathan Ornstein famously said, "As long as I have resumes on my desk, I'm paying you guys too much."

The future requirement for FO's to have an ATP is the only thing that will put a stop to this. Maybe then pilots will place a higher value on their services than current entry-level airline pilots do?

Best of luck to all you guys @ Pinnacle. Getting your contract gutted in bankruptcy is no fun, nor is being attached to a business model (50 seat jets) that is failing.

Pinnacle doesn't own anything... Maybe a few fax machine, a tug. That's about it, all the Q's and some 900's are going back so there's not much the share holders are going to get.

I was expecting something along the lines of a 10% pay cut across the board, cut in benefits and work rules etc. Did you really expect nothing to change in Bankruptcy?

So this is less of a cut than what I expected... Sorry if that offends you. However that does not mean I am happy about it.

What is me standing up going to do? This is going to happen in one way or the other. I doubt the union will agree to these concessions which is ok but Pinnacle will just go to the judge and get most if not all of these amendments approved. This will happen whether or not we whine about it on internet forums.

You as an individual nothing, however as a group there is a descent chance we could make a difference or at least educate the guys coming into the buisness. This is the only way to provoke change.

Thankfully this is the company shooting for the moon. Hopefully they are proposing way more than what the final outcome will be. For those saying its not that bad, only 2.0% for fo's........you really need to look at the big picture. Sure its 2% off the top of your salary, but your health insurance costs are going to go thru the roof (42% increase in family deductable) and per deim is getting hit 8.8%.

To total that all up in a percentage loss, we are looking at 20%+ and thats JUST salary, health ins and per diem. I'm waaay too lazy to calculate all of the rest of the things we are losing and are now going to cost more.
2.0 salary
10.0 insurance premiums ****guessing**** could be worse
8.8 per deim
= 20.8% and rising

So I guess this should go without saying, dont pick up any open time when our guys are on the street

From what they are saying on MesabaPilots.com and AirlinkPilots.com I would say that you are spot on. People will be jumping ship fast.

Everyone plan a day, drop the plane off at a random airport, leave a note that says "I quit. Ps. Go fukc yourself Menke"

It's averages around 2.3% over the last 10ish years, but it's been as high as 4.1% and as low as 0.1% I think, given the swings in the economy. It's easily found on google. There's a calculator that lets you see the total inflation over any period as well. Did you know that since 2004 inflation has made everything about 21% more expensive? Have the wages for regional pilots gone up anything like that? It just keeps getting worse...

May 7-31 there was 161hrs of open time FO Q, as of today there is 108hrs. And from my understanding they are using every bit of res coverage. Let them get in a big pickle to where they are cancelling flights.

That's what this is all about, every time this garbage happens bigger airplanes or new fleet aircraft are right around the corner. Sad isn't it?:(

Any of you fools picking up open time while guys are on the street,,,,, shame on you..........

For those who are picking it up, try to imagine it was YOU on the street....

This is being said from someone who
Hasn't gotten the boot yet

We have a lot of open time for FO's as the company is surprisingly giving them all time off for other interviews and job fairs.

Sadly there will be tools who pick up open time with furloughs an Rey will justify it with some excuse. "I have bills," or another scab like mentality

There is no excuse for picking it up.... Pilots should budget their expenses based off of 75 hours.... Anythin more than that is simply extra .....

At least that's my 2 cents

Understood. some can not live off the 75 hours because of the cost to get the education for this job. i'm not advocating picking up open time but just illustrating that fact that 75 hours is not enough to LIVE on without digging into savings on a month to month basis for many in this industry.

gawd this industry sucks.

I don't mean to pick on you, just to comment on this mentality that is likely shared by many others...

This is the equivalent of saying, "Thank you, Sean, may I have another?" Mild case of Stockholm Syndrome, perhaps. If I was 9E management reading this, I'd think the pilots were breathing a sigh of relief and going to go with it because they were "expecting much worse." It appears it'll be a HUGE financial strain, especially considering health insurance costs. Keep fighting.

I'm so sick and tired of this ******* place!! We had some POS '99 contract until 15 months ago, and now this crap!

We still have too many people here who are willing to bend over backwards for this place, and it ****ES ME OFF!:mad: 80 degrees out and we kill the APU after engine start, taxing into ATL in the same weather and no APU start, flying DTW to CMH and requesting FL230 to save gas (we don't pay for gas), closing the door and not dropping the brake until ready to push, etc, etc. "We gotta save the company money because blah blah blah..." Well I have news for you!!!! Before as a cash cow 9E was never able to do anything right, and now some people are believing they can? :eek: What a joke of a company this is...rant over.

I agree, and well said.

Unfortunately, I *very* recently heard a guy talking about attempting to picking up open time to earn some extra money..vacation, pay off some debt... (Suffice it to say, not a first year FO, but will leave things vague to protect the identity).

I am tired of passenger air travel being subsidized off our own backs by our passion/motivation to fly. :mad: