Regional FO -> Mainline FO directly?
 

Stupid question: could a regional FO technically move directly up to a mainline without becoming a regional Captain first? Or is it an "unwritten rule" that you have to make it to regional Captain before getting accepted by a mainline?

Thanks :)

I know a few people who have done that.

Minimums are minimums, if no TPiC is required and you meet the minimums there you go, but a pilot who has been a captain, check airman or instructor should have more experience than the average regional FO and thus gets hired!!! The whole point of the 1,000 T-PIC requirement is to weed down the possible applicants. Now Virgin and JetBlue don't require you to have T-PIc and have been hiring regional FO! The legacy carriers haven't done serious hiring since 9/11 so it will be interesting to see what their requirements will be but initially expect the 1,000 hr requirement to be there!

Happens all the time. In my observation it helps to be a badass or a minority, ideally a badass minority...

Network, network, network, volunteer, join professional associations, and never get too comfortable.

That's what I thought. For example, here is what Delta has to say:

Delta will hire regional FO's, but you will need to be well connected, or affirmative-action eligible.

People are being ridiculous in this thread.....

They seem to forget that if you have a relative who is a line pilot, or especially somewhere in the training/management department, you're golden for that major.

My father is a senior Delta pilot, hasn't helped me a bit and I have more than enough hours to go.

With the right connections and a good bit of luck, even the most unqualified pilots can find themselves at mainline... passing up much more qualified aviators in the process. It really is unfortunate.

You have the PIC time?

Not true at all.

Not required at DAL or UAL. Plenty have been hired at DAL with no PIC turbine.

What do you all think a typical FO to Captain upgrade time will be at a regional 5-10 years from now based upon current hiring predictions?

The way I see it, if I fly as an FO for a regional for a couple years after flight instructing, I'll have around 2,500-3,000 hours total, which I've always thought would be enough for a Mainline. (?) If I were to get an offer by a Mainline as a FO a couple years in, there really is no reason at all to stick around and wait for the Captain upgrade at the regional...

Seen any unicorns, lately? No one can predict hiring in 5 years, let alone what the mins will be then.

GF

Gotcha, thanks! :)

Doesn't mean squat if they arent hiring.

Mainline hiring is going to eventually have to be done by age group rather than experience level.

I did it, but I was extremely lucky in that the VP of Flight at AA was one of those types who helped you get hired if you knew him. All I did was call him up at 6am one day expecting his voicemail.... however he picked up the phone and I ended up chatting and asking if I could come down to DFW to deliver a resume. Keep in mind, this was back in the "Golden Rush" 90s - 1999 to be exact, and AA was hiring gazillions - so I did just that - flew down to DFW with a resume and a little "office decor" (so to speak - a nice hand-drawn 3ft long replica of AA's 757 RetroJet with his name on it... he had flown the inaugural flight a few months earlier, as depicted in one of the Airways magazines of that time - can you say Major Schmoozer? :D

At the time, I had around 2400TT and was a J-41 F/O at ACA with about 1200 turbine SIC. He told me to get up to 1500 Turbine and I'd get a call. Got the call three months later.

My interview stats: 2700TT, 1500 SIC Turbine, No Turbine PIC, and no ATP. I had been at ACA about a year and a half and had just gotten my J32 CA award, but hadn't started training. After seeing the quals in my interview group, I was CONVINCED I was doomed: I had, by far, the lowest quals in the group. But I flew a great sim ride (in the DC-10) and interviewed well.

I just flew a trip with one of our former interviewers. After I told him this story, he told me that they didn't care so much if you were low time with zero turbine PIC - they wanted someone they could get along with who showed that they would be CA material some day. I'm not so sure I showed that, but I did my best.

So yes, it is possible, but it depends on the hiring airline and their policies. I don't need to remind anyone here that AA's hiring policy under Cecil Ewell could have been seen as more than a little unfair - he tended to hire who he liked. I'm much more in favor of a fair process that weighs heavily on experience. However, my thinking back then was, why not? the worst they can say is No, and I'd be an idiot for not trying. It paid off. (I think... who knows what will happen with AA.)

My advice is to apply and network even as a regional F/O with no ATP - you never know where it can lead you, and just like the lottery - you won't win if you don't play.

No, it won't. There's this thing called age discrimination...

I've had a few friends get hired at mainline without any TPIC. The most recent was a ASA to JetBlue buddy. Two went to CAL in 2005 with zero TPIC from ACA. One to Virgin just recently (had twin otter PIC) from Republic.

And that's just in my little world. So there's definitely more out there. Not to mention, all these people are white males. So they had that "disadvantage." I'm sure when retirements start cranking, seeing guys interviewing/getting hired without TPIC won't be as unusual as it is now.

I think the only airlines to actually require TPIC are SWA, FedEx, UPS and Alaska if I'm not mistaken?

Ummm. Well. Yeah.

This is going to sound worse than I mean it to, but I'm going to say it anyway. I personally know two young men of color also belonging to OBAP from my Comair days that barely had 1,000 hours. They came to Comair from WMU and were only at Comair for a few months then were picked up by Delta. I personally think that's crap. It's practically reverse discrimination in my book. Here we were slaving away trying to fight our way up and these guys basically got a free pass.

Maybe I can sue someone? Will Reverend Jackson or Sharpton come to my aid? (What exactly are they reverends of, anyway???)

So like someone else said, if you are affirmative-action eligible, you can pretty much write your own ticket. You're really in the money if you are female and affirmative-action eligible. If you're a white male then pick a number and wait on it to turn up in the raffle.

I'm a white male, so I guess the odds won't be in my favor :(

I recently had a 25 year old blonde female bump me off the jump seat of a Comair flight. Without my asking, she told me how she was on the A320 at Delta and had done her time at Comair (two years), and had the right to the jump seat. Wow, just wow. She's going to be a real pleasure to fly with.

25?! The last time they hired was 2010 right? So she was 23 when she was hired at DAL? :confused:

Haha... I may have used the term "recently" a little liberally! Didn't realize how long ago it was, guess I've just been having too much fun :D I do remember it was in Detroit.

LOL. No worries. :-)

Yup, I do. Last time Delta had interviews my dad couldn't help me.

All hiring is discriminatory if you dissect it enough. Rather, a balance between age groups to control the rate of mandatory retirements - to control the outflow valve. So yes, it will.

The only people discriminated against in our industry are white males. I'm betting many think twice when filling out the equal opportunity survey at the end of an employee application.

I was hired at USAir in 1999 with no turbine PIC. In retrospect, accepting it was the worst decision I could have made. When I was furloughed several years later I was unqualified to apply at any of the few airlines still hiring and, as a result, ended up at the bottom of a regional.

Better to gain the minimum qualifications than to regret not having done so later. I ended up having almost 9000 TT and it taking almost 10 years after my first airline job before I got 1000 pic turbine.

HOPEFULLY in a couple of years, affirmative action will be illegal as it IS a racist, sexist, and unethical idea. As the mother of two white males, I object to it and think it is about the most unfair practice in our land. I know some will say that I may have benefited from it and I say: point made.

Yea this chick has been going around telling people how she is going to be number 1 at Delta and that she paid her dues yada yada.

Its a crazy industry and as we all know its all about luck and timing. Its a big gamble either way. By waiting to get the 1000 TPIC instead of taking a class date you could be giving up months (or years) of seniority. That lost seniority could mean anything..years on reserve, years longer upgrade, displacements etc.

No one knows.

Was he "RD" or Western? Western legacies tend to get a bum deal.

Not sure how NW plays into that.

It helps a little if he knows the right people also. The DAL guy who helped me went to a NASCAR race with Plato back in the day.

Alas, my class was after DAL quit running them in 2001.
Worked out anyway.

There are a few NW people involved with hiring. It seems, just like anything, it is all about who you know. Time will tell if the NW legacies are treated like the Western legacies. The Delta application was modified to remove the drop down selection to indictae if one is or not, do not know what that is about.

If you have a vagina then you can and will 100% go from fo regional to fo mainline.

Don't know about the RD thing, he's been there 32 years. It's not a big deal, I have no problem going through the process just like everyone else. My comment was just to clarify that it doesn't always give you a free ride to know someone, although it might not hurt.

HAH, yeah get rid of it after the fact right...

Im a black male...

1)To start off, dont let people tell you your skin color will mess you up. We're in the jim Crow era if we start talking like that again.
2) I worked at WMU. Does everyone really understand that ONLY WMU had the Delta Program? It was because of DAL's loss of a law suit regarding their hiring practice. I only worked there, was not a part of the program.
3)If you believe in the American justice system, how can u respond to #2?
4) Do I believe affirmative action is fair? NO!
5) Why do we have affirmative action? Because of mistakes the previous generation made. I, u, and our peers have nothing to do with that, but we cant undue it today. We have to live with it.

How many times have you seen minority pilots? Prolly 2 times out of 10. Its a numbers game. Dont let anyone tell you any different. Most minorities dont know that they can fly or how to go about doin it. I know this because I go to the schools and talk with them. Im a member of OBAP and try to give back. Most that hate on OBAP dont give back to the next generation and have no idea what its like to suit up on a day off and go to a elem school.

Keep flying and dont let race stop you.

Speaking of color and hiring at Delta, check out this Delta pilot story, from the Delta.com blog site.......

Behind-the-wings: The Pilot Life At Delta

Published March 23rd, 2012 in Onboard, Pilots |

My name is D*** C*** and I am a First Officer for Delta Air Lines. Currently in my fifth year with Delta, I fly the Boeing 737 (800/700). I am based in the New York area, so I fly out of JFK, LaGuardia and Newark a lot. In addition to my usual routes to the west coast (LAX, SEA, etc.), I have also been flying to South America a lot recently. What I love about flying and working for Delta is that every flight and every day is different, meaning new opportunities and challenges to do my best. Regardless of the number of times I have taken off or landed at a certain airport, this job requires that I am constantly working for perfection, never allowing my professionalism to take a back seat.

I grew up in Woodbridge,VA, a suburb just outside ofWashington,D.C.and come from a fabulous, loving and supportive family. My parents were very closely linked to my career choice. My mother was a flight attendant for USAir for 30 years, so I spent much of my childhood traveling with my siblings and learning all about the country and the world first hand. I wanted to be a flight attendant just like my mother. However, she told me I needed to be in the cockpit, because that’s where the real fun was. And that, as they say, was that. With the support of my family, I found that it’s amazing what you can do when you don’t know that you can’t.

My mom was my biggest influence and my biggest fan; she was just amazing. She had this great job that took her all over the world, and at the same time was always there for all of us. She was Superwoman. She opened my eyes to aviation and, more importantly, the world. Throughout my research, she actively helped me find a flight school, an instructor and a good college to make my dream a reality. As a result of her encouragement and support, I was even able to start college with a Private Pilot certificate, a year ahead of most of my classmates.

I choose Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, where I received my Bachelor’s Degree, as well the rest of my flight ratings (Instrument, Commercial, Multi, Certified Flight Instructor, Instrument Instructor and Multi-Engine Instructor) in four years. I faced the typical challenges of any female trying to make it in what is still deemed “a man’s world”, feeling I needed to work twice as hard to be seen as half as good. Though no one comes out and says they are judging you because you are female, actions speak louder than words. Knowing the expectations I would face, I overcame the challenges by giving 110%, 100% of the time. I knew I had to work harder than my peers. As an African-American female, I was a double minority and for four years I was the only girl in many of my courses. Going above and beyond became my ‘normal’; which prepared me not only for college, but also for a tough career ahead.

When people told me “no” or doubted my hopes and dreams, it only fueled my fire, reinforcing my commitment to becoming a pilot; not just to prove them wrong, but to show them they had no effect on me. During this time, my mother and my siblings had a huge impact in helping me stay strong. On those occasions when I did see that rare female pilot in a uniform, it helped kept everything in perspective. I realized those women had it so much harder than I did, and they had opened the door for me. The least I could do was to work hard and open a door for others.

In 2004, I was working at a regional airline and decided I needed to make things happen to make my dreams come true. I applied (for the third time) for both the Delta Boeing 737 Type Rating and a job at Spirit Airlines. I hoped that, with any luck, I would get one of the opportunities and start taking a step in the right direction for my career. To my surprise, not only did I get the job at Spirit Airlines, I also won the Delta Type Rating! It was such an amazing feeling to know that my hard work was finally paying off. I had already taken the job at Spirit when I was told I had won the scholarship from Delta. Even though I was working for a competitor, Delta was true to its word and worked with me and my training/work schedule at Spirit. They treated me like a member of the Delta family from the start. Everyone I came across was supportive and encouraging, with regards to furthering my career and becoming a Delta pilot. Once Delta began the hiring process, I applied and was fortunate enough to be accepted and officially join the Delta team as a pilot.

The experience I have had with Delta Air Lines has been positive from the start; and while I have been an employee for more than five years, it has yet to feel like work. When you are here, you really are part of huge family. And despite what the future holds, I know that I will have the support and help of this new family, Delta Air Lines.



D*** C***

Delta Pilot