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mobius27 07-16-2012 01:31 PM


Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky (Post 1230751)
You don't need a first class to get an ATP, just to exercise the privileges of it. Since they aren't the pic, they aren't exercising the privileges.

Uh but since the new law requires an ATP to be an FO, after August of next year won't all FO's be exercising the privileges of an ATP by just being an FO?

flyingreasemnky 07-16-2012 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by mobius27 (Post 1230767)
Uh but since the new law requires an ATP to be an FO, after August of next year won't all FO's be exercising the privileges of an ATP by just being an FO?

It also requires them to have a type but they still won't be logging PIC. The way I read it, they will have to have it but not use it. I guess we will see if the FAA changes their interpretation with the final results.

rickair7777 07-17-2012 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by Bellanca (Post 1230766)
If acting as a 121 FO requires an ATP cert, then wouldn't an FO have to be able to exercise privileges of an ATP cert (including holding a First Class medical)?


At face value, yes. That would be the literal interpretation, and I have not seen any written exceptions.

But I'm sure the intent was not to sideline all the career FO's with 2C medicals, that would be an unintended consequence. I'm almost certain the FAA will clarify that in the near future.

AFOX1BRAVO 07-17-2012 06:35 AM

When you pass your ATP ride your CMEL is taken and superseded by your new ATP which is issued for MEL airplanes. Unless your part 121 aircraft is certificated for one engine then you absolutely are exercising the privileges of your ATP because your CMEL no longer exists.

Senior Skipper 07-17-2012 09:30 AM

As of today, even though your CMEL is no longer in effect, you're still exercising commercial privileges.

flyingreasemnky 07-18-2012 05:08 AM


Originally Posted by AFOX1BRAVO (Post 1231074)
When you pass your ATP ride your CMEL is taken and superseded by your new ATP which is issued for MEL airplanes. Unless your part 121 aircraft is certificated for one engine then you absolutely are exercising the privileges of your ATP because your CMEL no longer exists.

If that were true than a lot of people who let their medical lapse with a ppl and than fly under sport pilot rules would be breaking a lot of regs. Republic and Pinnacle even have it in their contract that a captain that loses their first class can take an fo seat. I don't think there would be a negotiated provision in a contract if it was against the regs.

SrfNFly227 07-18-2012 05:16 AM


Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky (Post 1231610)
If that were true than a lot of people who let their medical lapse with a ppl and than fly under sport pilot rules would be breaking a lot of regs. Republic and Pinnacle even have it in their contract that a captain that loses their first class can take an fo seat. I don't think there would be a negotiated provision in a contract if it was against the regs.

When those contracts were negotiated, it wasn't regulation for an FO to have an ATP. It will be regulation in the future however.

I think this is an interesting question that hasn't yet been addressed by the FAA. My guess would be that in the future, the medical requirement will read something similar to this "First class medical is required for any ATP certificated pilot who is acting as PIC of a place requiring a type rating. A second class medical is required to act as SIC."

SrfNFly227 07-18-2012 05:17 AM


Originally Posted by flyingreasemnky (Post 1231610)
Republic and Pinnacle even have it in their contract that a captain that loses their first class can take an fo seat. I don't think there would be a negotiated provision in a contract if it was against the regs.

When those contracts were negotiated, it wasn't regulation for an FO to have an ATP. It will be regulation in the future however.

I think this is an interesting question that hasn't yet been addressed by the FAA. My guess would be that in the future, the medical requirement will read something similar to this "First class medical is required for any ATP certificated pilot who is acting as PIC of a place requiring a type rating. A second class medical is required to act as SIC."


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