If someone tried to complain about not checking in while non reving I would fart in the cockpit door as I was passing by. :D Kidding but that is rediculous

So what did this person do? Your right the capt can kick anyone off but NO one is required to check in while non reving. I have been non reving my whole life and never have I or to my knowledge, my parents checked in ( both employees)

Incorrect. Non revs don't "hop a ride" They have the privilege of riding on their companies planes. The captain can not deny a non-rev boarding just because they felt like it or because "they didn't say hi to me". They need to believe that there is a safety of flight issue if they deny a non-rev boarding. While the captain may win the "battle" at the gate in getting the person removed he/she will lose the war if that person complains to the company that the captain denied them boarding for no reason. ALL employees are given the privilege to travel on their companies airplanes. It is one of their benefits. If a captain is denying non-revs that benefit "just because" then that person wont be a captain or employed very long. That would be a very awkward carpet dance with the chief pilot to explain why they were kicking employees off the plane for no reason.


Exactly. I have been non-reving since I was 1 all over the world with my parents and not once have we ever gone to the flight deck and introduced our selves to the captain. Also in my short 5 years as captain I have never, nor do I expect, all the non-revs to check in with me prior to getting on the plane. I wouldn't even be able to tell the non-revs from the regular pax unless they are wearing uniforms. The Jump seat, whether it is in the front or back, belongs to the captain. The rest of the seats in the airplane belong to the paying passengers and non-revs who have earned the privilege to be there. If they are not following the policy regarding non-reving or are causing problems, then the captain has full authority to remove them, like any paying passenger, from the flight. Otherwise they are picking a fight they will not win and may even end up with a suspension of their own benefits.

Denying a non-rev boarding for not saying hi, and hurting your feelings is NOT a legitimate reason. If a jumpseater does it, then summon them to your presence and educate them, and you would be correct to do so. Your basis of captains authority is correct, but your application is way off.

Let me guess, you work for Gojet?

Well im a creature of habit...IN BEFORE THE LOCK!

It says it on your jumpseat pass, 'additional crew member' and usually says in print to check in with the captain. The captain must know about you. Never seen a non-rev seat request with that title, or instruction on it.

They don't have the right to deny a non rev just because they didn't say hi or bring them donuts. Any crew member can deny boarding if there is a valid REASON, not because they just don't like them. Why would you even want to deny boarding to a non rev who is dressed properly and following all the rules? Are you just a jerk? The captain can remove someone from a flight initially, but will probably have to explain when it comes out that it was only because his/her feelings/ego were/was bruised. I'd sure like to see it somewhere in writing where a captain can take it upon himself to just deny someone their travel benefits because he feels like it and they've done nothing wrong. Just to be clear, I am NOT talking about jumpseat, I am talking about non rev.

Check your messages buddy

Wow, 5 bloody pages on Jumpseating vs. non-revving? Is this a joke? Or airline etiquette for dummies? Flying the line for the Galactically stupid? Come on, twenty people have answered the OP and twenty people want to argue why! Grade school is dismissed! Read and understand! What do we have to do, draw you a diagram?

First of all, it's not your place to direct non revs to the CA. Non revs often pay an annual fee for their travel, and they are not obligated to introduce themselves to the flight crew. Secondly, while non rev travel can be taken away, it is certainly not within the powers of a flight crew to do so. Your CA's can not just turn someone back to the gate area because they didn't say hello as a non rev. A jumpseater is a different story, but a non rev.....no.

Third, a non rev pass is NOT a free ride. If I buy an ID90 on Air France, it is a space available pass and I am under NO obligation to introduce myself to the crew. I bought that ticket. It wasn't free. Same as if I non rev on Delta. I pay my annual fee, & if assigned a seat from a non rev listing I don't have to say hi to anyone. Last, you're assuming a non rev is a pilot. Will a gate agent or ramper be able to help out if one of the pilots passes out?

It's important people know the difference between non rev travel and Jumpseat travel. They are two different animals. Only pilots, flight attendants, dispatchers, & ATC can Jumpseat.(There are a few others such as Secret Service, mechanics, etc)

Thanks for all the replies. There seems to be some confusion with the terminology (at least in my head).

When I think jumpseat, I'm thinking of sitting in the cockpit observation seat. Obviously, you have to walk in and ask permission. As the airline doesn't generate revenue from my presence, I consider it a form of non-rev travel. Am I good so far?

Now I considerd any seat in the back to be just general non-rev travel. So when I'm commuting from ORD to CLT in 12B, after just listing myself and going to the gate, I should be non-rev correct?

I guess I'd like a clear definition of jumpseating vs. non-rev, and which one requires CA approval.

Thanks

Mine is easy, in uniform I stop. Not in uniform I don't. Ill probably let the FA know. Only exception is if I'm on a 757 or bigger and the flight is wide open and we use the middle door to board.

No, absolutely not. If you work for United, and you list as a jump-seater on Alaska you must present your documents to the Captain and get her/his permission. I have been in that tricky situation too where the agent tells you to board and the flight attendant is busy with something blocking the flight deck door and you just have to take your seat.

Jump-seating requires that you meet certain requirements, like CASS, and it is a courtesy that you are given an open seat in the cabin if available. You are legally a crew-member when jump-seating. That is why you cant get liquored up, etc.

Non rev is a completely different animal. I don't non rev on any airline as I am a freight dog. My company buys me a ticket, but I am often in uniform. I am always careful to point out that I have a ticket to the FA.

We should act like ladies and gentlemen and help each other out. Remember we are not the enemy.

Jumpseating has little to do with where you sit. It has to do with if you are getting a ride for free. Usually this happens "off line", but it can be on your own airline or at an affiliate(express).
You may Jumpseat "in the actual Jumpseat or be put in a vacant seat if it doesn't fill up. Sometimes, a plane is wide open and a gate agent will assign you a seat an prior to departure. You are still jmpseating and must ask the captain for a ride. Obviously you must be a qualifiedCASS pilot or dispatcher.

Non rev, (id90, zed), etc are the other ways to travel, these do not require permission. All work groups and families have this option

Capice?

Jumpseating - 1. You SHOULD stop in the cockpit to ask for the ride from the Captain and introduce yourself to the FO and at least
the Lead FA. The Captain in turn SHOULD ask to see your credentials, that is your current ID and Medical. I've had one or two old timers ask to see the FCC radio license. CASS, I think, only tells that you are permitted to use the cockpit jump seat. Whether you are online or offline, stopping in, I think, shows respect and professionalism towards the crew.
NonReving - Just show up. Follow the check in procedures. Board when
you're called. Take your seat, shut up and keep your feet off
wall and the furniture. Don't do anything stupid for the crew
to get involved and throw you off. Enjoy

"SHOULD" might be problematic.
 

I would be careful of the use of "should". Here is a link to the regulation. I have not been able to find where it says that the Captain must verify this as it appears that it can be done by the gate agent.

Jumpseat Information > Home

8900.1 Vol. 3 Ch 2 Sec 1, Exemptions, Deviations, Waivers, and Authorizations

F. Identity and Eligibility Verification Methods. The following guidance is to be addressed in operators’ procedures in verifying an individual’s identity and jump seat eligibility. Methods are arranged by type of operation.

1) Method #1: Passenger-Carrying Operations—Employees of the Part 121 Certificated Air Carrier, Wholly Owned Domestic Subsidiaries, or Domestic Code-Share Partners. Certificate holder procedures for accessing the flight deck (jump seat) must include verification of identity, employment status, and jump seat eligibility at gate check-in using the procedures outlined in subparagraph 3-46D.

2) Method #2: All Operations—Eligible Employees of Other Part 121 Certificated Air Carriers. Certificate holder procedures for accessing the flight deck (jump seat) must include verification of identity, employment status, and jump seat eligibility at gate check-in using the procedures outlined in subparagraph 3-46D and as follows:

a) Additional items for non-company flightcrew members accessing the flight deck:

1. Current medical certificate if the requester serves as a flightcrew member for his or her employer.
2. Appropriate airman certificate.
b) Flight deck access by non-company employees must also be authorized by the issuance of OpSpec A048.

It isn't that you SHOULD stop by the flight deck. It's that you MUST. If you are jumpseating you must ask the CA for permission. The agent verifies whether a pilot is in the CASS data base because pilots do NOT have the ability to do so. The CA can't see who is or isn't in CASS. CASS is what allows us to occupy the flight deck Jumpseat of an airline other then our own.

Not every pilot group is in CASS(although most are now). So let's say pilot from ABC airlines(ABC pilots are not in CASS) wants to Jumpseat on XYZ airlines. He checks in at the gate, and the agent sees that he is NOT in CASS. He may NOT occupy the Jumpseat of XYZ airlines, but he may occupy an open cabin seat. However, he is still jumpseating and therefore MUST request permission from the CA for a free ride. If the cabin fills up with revenue and non revenue passengers, pilot from ABC airlines is left behind.

The ONLY reason why I used the word SHOULD is because boarding can be a fast and fluid process. Gate agent and FA's have at times specifically tell me to take my seat and they in turn will advise the Capt of the hurried situation. Mostly to get the flight out on time or other reasons. I know it's a MUST, but try to argue that point with an offline gate agent or FA and you will be watching the acft pushing back from the terminal. The Captain would not even know anything of you. I follow all jumpseat protocols, including ALMOST ALWAYS saying goodbye to the front end guys and thanking them for the ride. Almost is for the many times I have walked up from seat 42B and the cockpit is empty. Circumstances. Cheers.

Senior Skipper,

I'll do my best to clear this up for you. I fly for Delta mainline. If I list myself through Delta's employee non revenue system, check in, & am cleared/assigned a seat in the cabin I am a non revenue passenger. I am under no obligation to introduce myself to anyone, and if I'm not going to work I am free to consume alcohol.

Now, if the Delta flight is oversold & I feel I won't make it as a non rev, then I'll ask to Jumpseat. The agent will verify I'm a Delta pilot and issue me a Jumpseat pass. I must go ask the CA for permission, even if it there end up being seats open in the back. I'm still on a Jumpseat pass, & may not consume alcohol.

Now let's say I want to catch an American Airlines flight home. The flight is less then 24 hours away so I call the non rev assist line and they list me for the flight. I call the non rev assist line so I don't have to list as a jumpseater at the gate. It's a time saver, & a courtesy still offered by AA for OAL(other airline employees) that don't have access to AA's system. However, I'm still being listed as a jumpseater. Once I reach the gate, the agent will verify if I'm a CASS approved jumpseater. This will let the agent know if I can occupy the flightdeck Jumpseat since I'm not an American pilot. Now it turns out there are over 30 seats open in the back, & so the agent issues me a seat. I am given a boarding pass, but I am STILL a jumpseater and I MUST ask the CA for a ride.

The only time you are truly a non rev is if you are traveling on your airline(or if a regional pilot the legacy your airline connects for)using your pass privileges, traveling on a buddy pass, or if you bought an ID90(interline fare). If you aren't using one of those then you are a jumpseater. Hope this helps clear things up.

So if I'm using ZED fares or ID90 passes, I'm a non-rev, and don't need to disturb the crew. Otherwise I'm a jumpseater, and need to ask. I think I've got it now.

Thanks

Dude this isnt very complicated. You either listed for a jumpseat or you didnt. If you did, u must ask the captain. If you did not then its optional.. No need for a 10 page thread.

I feel your pain, and I have been in that exact situation myself. I apologize for sounding pedantic. I am beginning to think that he might be pulling our leg, and that I have made the classic rookie mistake.....

Hahahaha. I was thinking the same thing. Maybe we're being played? :o:D

I appreciate the prompt correction and apology. That shows the type of professionalism I would like to see on these boards. Let's hope for the day that we do not jump down each others throats for the slightest misstatement or word. Intended meaning is not easily conveyed through short internet messages. Geez third grade was the longest 3 years of my life. Cheers.

Dude I could not have said it any better. Well played sir. Now Senior Skipper hobble back up front and beg for the ride.

Commuting already sucks enough without some of you nimrods misunderstanding the difference between jumpseating and non-reving.

Atlas, I'm not trying to troll, just figuring out the whole system. Travelling standby is a pain, so I tend to avoid it except for when I used to commute. I may be doing some travelling later this year though, so I wanted to make sure I had it straight in my head.

Thanks for all who replied. I suppose when in doubt, I'll talk to the CA.

One more time
 

Well, since I already bit at this I will have one more go at it.

I was honestly trying to answer your questions as I think everyone else was. This web site is worthless if we are not helping each other. Life in this business is tough enough without having to deal with tools on the interweb.

But I do not understand what is still unclear about any of this or how you could have been in this line of work for very long and be so confused? I am not trying to beat you up, but I was starting to feel like I had inadvertently fallen into a Burmese Tiger Trap....

I jump-seat for personal trips, but my company buys my ticket to work. We welcome jump-seaters anytime (747 is a nice ride). I appreciate all of the rides that I have been given and am grateful I don't have to jump-seat to work.

Wow.

Am I the only who thinks that if you are confused by whether you have called the company's OAL non-rev (jumpseat) listing line (if available) or have asked a customer service agent to list you for the Jumpseat (whether on the flight deck or in the cabin, as determined by CASS privileges or inter airline Jumpseat agreements) or whether you are traveling standby on your carrier's equipment that you confuse far too easily and have no business flying an aircraft?!?!

Or as was brought up above, are we all being played?! (Show me the hidden camera please...)

Wow.

:eek:

Ever get that feeling?
 

Okay, rule of thumb - If they look you up in CASS, you are 'jumpseating' no matter if you are in the flight deck, a spare flight attendant seat, or in a comfy first class seat. If you are on the plane, without having been looked up in CASS, you are a non-rev. No matter if it is ZED, ID90,75 or 50, or a company vacation pass.

Remember:
CASS = Jumpseat = ask the captain for a ride.
No Cass = Non Rev = don't ask the captain for a ride.

Cheers!

Perfecto!!

Okay Okay. Will all nimrods please stop by in the cockpit and check in with the SKIPPER....not Senior. LMFAO. Wow. how professional that was. OK I am done with this topic.

Hey everyone, I'm gonna be starting to commute from mdt to ewr starting next month, and I'm looking for a website I can use for jumpseat options... Right now I've been using coair (united) and pass rider.com... Pass rider doesn't seem to give all he options I can find thru coair, but obviously I want access to other airlines besides united. Does anyone know of a better website than passrider? Thx

I can tell you from 20 years of experience that the only time you need to check in on a major carrier is when are riding up front in a jump seat. Those guys could care less if you are non-reving or whatever. Some of the commuter/regional guys are a little anal and still get a power trip over the whole check in up front. When I dead head---I never check in. First of all--it is not the Captains airplane---it is owned by a company and that company is deadheading me for a purpose. If the captain has a problem with that---he or she can take it up with the company that is providing the deadhead. I don't mean to sound disrespectful----but some of the commuter/regional drama is just that.

Hahaha either clueless or flame bait ^^^

Neither. Maybe you are clueless or have only worked at the commuter/regional level. I stand behind every word.

That's funny. I've had at least 5 mainline CA's say something derogatory to me when I was deadheading or nonreving. Just assumed I was jumpseating and bypassing their authority.

Ok here is a scenario that I face every week going to ewr on mainline. I list for the Jumpseat. The gate agent says hey there are seats open in the back and gives me a ticket with a seat in the back. On this ticket it still shows sk3 which is the Jumpseat code for non mainline. I am still jump seating although I have a seat in the back. I ALWAYS go politely ask for a ride, and introduce myself to the flight attendants up front.


According to you when I Jumpseat like this I should just go sit down and not ask for a ride. Man I feel bad for you if you think this is ok.

I have been doing it over 20 years and have never had one comment from anyone. Maybe in my younger days I was more gung ho about trying to please everyone. If someone does say something to me in the future---I would probably just nod, smile and continue on with may day. It really does not concern me as to what every person I encounter thinks. We run across way too many people, rules, opinions, complaints, egos, etc.... in this business to get all worked up about the little stuff that really does not matter.