I think Tim Martin's already has those.


So should he go with "Junior Birdman" now, and then ask the Mods to change it later?

Wow! Lighten up Francis. Did your wife make you sleep on the couch last night or something?

In case you haven't noticed this is an internet message board, not a congressional inquiry. People have many different user names which may or may not reflect reality. Right now I'm thinking yours has a couple of wrong consonants (lose the h, add a t) to reflect your personality accurately.

FWIW - I wouldn't tell you where I work either, given your response!

Now I'm not sure you actually work for an airline. The facts are, in the real world, you can't just say "No Jews on my airplane ... PIC/Captain Authority ... conversation over".

Or "No Negroes on my airplane ... PIC/Captain Authority ... conversation over".

It should be an obvious thing, but as I have said over and over and over, the company decides who rides on their machine and if you exercise "authority" counter to it, you better have a damn good reason.

The skipper is in charge of the boat, but that doesn't grant blanket authority do anything he wants, and just saying "conversation over" doesn't work outside of fantasy-land.

You keep going to extremes to try and prove your point. Obviously in the scenario that you present above, one would have A LOT to answer for. The decision obviously has to be backed by logic and a genuine belief their decision is for good cause, and nowhere did I allude otherwise.

We are clearly not going to agree, but my statements are not based on "fantasy land" beliefs, but real world experience. Regardless, I give up on this conversation.

You are playing the what if game with extreme examples of poor choices. You are basically fueling your own argument with non-sense.

Captains can and will remove passengers who interfere with crew members, appear to be intoxicated, or are causing a commotion. You cannot be a captain without some form of decision making ability making your argument a moot point. If a captain makes poor decisions or is the type to kick a certain ethnicity or religion off of his airplane then he probably wouldn't keep his seat or be employed much longer. That said he could come up with any number of reasons to explain why the passenger needed to be removed (Can You Articulate or Cover Your Ass) irregardless of the passenger actually deserving to be removed. Ex "he stumbled in the boarding area and appeared drunk"

I am not saying their aren't prejudiced people in this profession but I am willing to bet that they wouldn't risk their 6 figure job just so they wouldn't haul a minority across the country. Your examples are far fetched and pointless.

In every single case of a passenger being removed in my experience there has been a very good reason for it.

The contention of this debate was that caps can remove pax for any reason or no reason, based solely on "authority".

Why don't you crawl back into your dispatcher hole and leave the flying to pilots.

Hit a nerve, eh?

Hey, Hey HEY! It's all about the joint responsibility, right? :rolleyes:

Easy to Monday morning QB from the comfort of a swivel chair at zero airspeed.

On your next dispatcher observation ride, you should let one of those Delta Captains know what your feelings on his authority are...

Bingo.......that is IF he really is even a dispatcher for DAL

The point of this entire thread isn't about piloting the airplane, it's about kicking pax off during boarding for no reason, and getting away with it, and whether or not it is a "right" of a PIC.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the point of this thread really is. It started out with "Senior Skipper", who apparently isn't either, asking about the necessity of checking in as a nonrev (you don't).
Then it morphed into whether or not you need to check in with the Captain if you're a jumpseater, but not in the cockpit (you do).
Then there were a bunch of posts saying the same thing over and over. Then there were several wrong posts. Then I posted a funny Homer gif hoping this thread would die.
Then there was you, asking if we would kick Jews off the flight for no reason (I won't).
Then it turned into a pilot v. dispatcher war.

I'm lost on the point here - just sounds like mindless rambling.

I'm done.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...don_thread.gif

It was between that, and Maverick_Top_Gun.:rolleyes:

No.

Your opinion is noted. Thanks for your constructive responses.

LOL, Jughead. Point taken.

DeltaDX,

OK, we get it.....as Captains, we can't remove people on a whim, though I don't really think that anyone was suggesting that.

By the same token, somebody earlier suggested that you should read the FOM to see what Delta says on the authority of the Captain. It's in CH 3.1 and basically says they have complete command of the aircraft and crew from the time they report until the time their day ends on the hotel van.

Over the years I've had a couple passengers removed, diverted flights for all sorts of reasons, and delayed flights for anything from lack of catering to stinky lavs. I've even had more fuel added and asked for alternates on the flight plan when they're not technically required.....and you know what? I've never received a call from Flight Ops or Chief Pilots. Not even a "Please come see me" note in my pilot mailbox. I've got a career long streak of never having had an 'official' conversation with the Chief Pilot and I hope to keep it that way. Back when I went to Delta's 'In Command' seminar, they kept saying to the new Captains: "You make the tough call, and we'll back you". While I may have my gripes with Flight Ops management, I've got to say that they've stuck to their promise. They give me pretty wide authority and as long as I make my decision based on Delta's operation priorities (you'll also find those in FOM Ch3.1) I don't hear a peep from them.

I guess what really bothers me, is that you as Delta dispatcher and someone who is jointly responsible for the safe and efficient operation of the flight, seems to have such a low opinion of Captains. You've got 10 messages on the board and all of them are about putting pilots in their place. It's time to lighten up, otherwise you picked the wrong profession if you don't want to work with us egotistical Flyboys.

Edit: I see Jughead beat me to it, so I'm just piling on. Therefore, in the immortal words of the late Rodney King

"Can't we all just get along?"
http://mmogamerchick.files.wordpress...-get-along.jpg

After being a long-time reader, I joined this forum in response to one particular post.

In fact, I have a high opinion of of Captains.

There are SO many discrepancies on what the differences and the actual meaning of a jumpseater vs a non-rev. Is there any official link or written definition somewhere? You're right, this stuff isn't taught in ground school. The basic differences nor jumpseat/non-rev etiquette.

Son, your usernames are writing checks your body can't cash! :p

There really aren't any discrepancies. Some people are making it more complicated than it is.

No kidding, and it's been explained multiple times in this thread.

Non-rev: You are using travel benefits on your airline/your parent airline(s). You are not run through CASS, you are purely waiting to make sure there are enough seats for you and possibly your companions. This is a benefit as part of your employment, and basically at the discretion of the gate agent having enough time to clear you and give you a seat. No need to be in uniform or even show that you're an employee of said airline. You do not need to check in with the captain or crew.

Jumpseater: You are not using travel benefits on your airline or parent airline. You are attempting to ride as an additional crewmember. Depending on load and company, you may be run through CASS. If a seat is available in the back, you will be placed there. If not, you may be allowed to ride in a cockpit jumpseat (or FA jumpseat on some airlines, I believe). Either way, you riding is at the captain's discretion, and checking in IS required.

Mod Note:

Well, I must be loosing (like the spelling? :)) my touch to let this thread go so long after drifting all over the place.

Jughead - would you like to fill in as moderator while I'm on vacation? ;)

Thread has come to a merciful end.