Privilege and Pilots
11-03-2006, 09:32 PM
#1
Self Employed.
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Privilege and Pilots
I was sitting in the waiting room at Alaska Airlines with two other applicants. We had finished our simulator rides earlier that morning and were waiting for the board interview when one received a phone call. It was his wife with good news. Horizon Airlines had called his home to congratulate him for getting hired at Alaska Airlines. Apparently the HR department had already called Horizon Air earlier that morning to tell them that they would be taking him.
When asked when he would be home he told his wife that he hadn't even gone in for his interview yet. Sheepishly he had to tell us what his phone call was about. Soon after the secretary called him in and fifteen minutes later he was on his way home being escorted out by one of the interviewing captains who was in the middle of telling him a story about a trip he had with his father years prior.
It is a nice idea to think that pilots are hired upon skill, experience and education alone. The reality is that you would recognise many of the names in a new hire class from the seniority list. Privilege and connections are prevalent in the airlines and I am told in the military as well.
Minimums, past convictions even fake educations are overlooked daily for the sons and daughters of the right people. Why does this matter to me, you might ask? Well every airline hires only a handful of people during most years. By my guess as many as one third are legacy hires and another third or more are from military connections. Human resources always has the diversity candidates that they campaign for. The seats left over gets awfully small for the average Joe off the street.
Don't kid yourself, most of the pilots who make it to the majors have had someone grease the system for them at some point. Either it was through a coveted placement in the military or a handshake between fathers behind the scenes. Few make it upon their own merit alone. The PC term is "networking". The ones who recieved the most help are easy to spot since they become enraged at the suggestion of it. My advise to you is to either get into one of those privileged groups or count on having considerably reduced odds and a much longer and more difficult time.
SkyHigh
When asked when he would be home he told his wife that he hadn't even gone in for his interview yet. Sheepishly he had to tell us what his phone call was about. Soon after the secretary called him in and fifteen minutes later he was on his way home being escorted out by one of the interviewing captains who was in the middle of telling him a story about a trip he had with his father years prior.
It is a nice idea to think that pilots are hired upon skill, experience and education alone. The reality is that you would recognise many of the names in a new hire class from the seniority list. Privilege and connections are prevalent in the airlines and I am told in the military as well.
Minimums, past convictions even fake educations are overlooked daily for the sons and daughters of the right people. Why does this matter to me, you might ask? Well every airline hires only a handful of people during most years. By my guess as many as one third are legacy hires and another third or more are from military connections. Human resources always has the diversity candidates that they campaign for. The seats left over gets awfully small for the average Joe off the street.
Don't kid yourself, most of the pilots who make it to the majors have had someone grease the system for them at some point. Either it was through a coveted placement in the military or a handshake between fathers behind the scenes. Few make it upon their own merit alone. The PC term is "networking". The ones who recieved the most help are easy to spot since they become enraged at the suggestion of it. My advise to you is to either get into one of those privileged groups or count on having considerably reduced odds and a much longer and more difficult time.
SkyHigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 11-03-2006 at 09:38 PM.
11-03-2006, 09:39 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,903
All of my colleagues made it to the left seat the old fashion way... by their own will, determination, and dedication to the profession to.
There were no hand shakes... no nepotism'... or any special considerations given to these men and women.
You talk about the minority of the people that are hired by the airlines today rather than the majority.
There were no hand shakes... no nepotism'... or any special considerations given to these men and women.
You talk about the minority of the people that are hired by the airlines today rather than the majority.
11-03-2006, 09:41 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: G2 gear slammer
Posts: 308
skyhigh, a quick question?
Do you have severally LONG flight time to think about these things? I see you posting things that clearly require plenty of thought, are you depressed? It sounds like you aren't happy where you work that's for sure.
Anyway, I admire your style, cut throat, and to the point.....respectful.
Do you have severally LONG flight time to think about these things? I see you posting things that clearly require plenty of thought, are you depressed? It sounds like you aren't happy where you work that's for sure.
Anyway, I admire your style, cut throat, and to the point.....respectful.
11-03-2006, 09:45 PM
#4
Self Employed.
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
How?
Originally Posted by captjns
All of my colleagues made it to the left seat the old fashion way... by their own will, determination, and dedication to the profession to.
There were no hand shakes... no nepotism'... or any special considerations given to these men and women.
You talk about the minority of the people that are hired by the airlines today rather than the majority.
There were no hand shakes... no nepotism'... or any special considerations given to these men and women.
You talk about the minority of the people that are hired by the airlines today rather than the majority.
SKyHigh
11-03-2006, 09:51 PM
#5
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Time
Originally Posted by bluebravo
skyhigh, a quick question?
Do you have severally LONG flight time to think about these things? I see you posting things that clearly require plenty of thought, are you depressed? It sounds like you aren't happy where you work that's for sure.
Anyway, I admire your style, cut throat, and to the point.....respectful.
Do you have severally LONG flight time to think about these things? I see you posting things that clearly require plenty of thought, are you depressed? It sounds like you aren't happy where you work that's for sure.
Anyway, I admire your style, cut throat, and to the point.....respectful.
No depression, just my findings.
SkyHigh
11-03-2006, 09:57 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737 Captain
Posts: 777
My older sister slept with the VP of flight ops so that helped. I also blackmailed a pilot recruiter over a drunken fling in Mexico we had months earlier. Still took two months to get the call though. Actually my sister is not that good lookin, that's probably why it took so long!
11-03-2006, 10:01 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: G2 gear slammer
Posts: 308
Ok you make sense in that aspect, BUT
why discourage young up and comers to not get in the biz? Granted it sucks, the pay is terrible, and QOL isn't what it used to be, but why sit there and bash some 15yr old kids dreams? I am one of those that grew up knowing i was going to fly for a living, my mom/dad aren't in the field, so i am a one legged jackass in a butt kicking contest, but I am not doing to bad for myself. Maybe your bitter but sometimes it is about luck, not the "grease" or "magic bullet" you speak of.
p.s. you have that grease in a can? I need me some!
why discourage young up and comers to not get in the biz? Granted it sucks, the pay is terrible, and QOL isn't what it used to be, but why sit there and bash some 15yr old kids dreams? I am one of those that grew up knowing i was going to fly for a living, my mom/dad aren't in the field, so i am a one legged jackass in a butt kicking contest, but I am not doing to bad for myself. Maybe your bitter but sometimes it is about luck, not the "grease" or "magic bullet" you speak of.
p.s. you have that grease in a can? I need me some!
11-03-2006, 10:01 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 297
We all know that knowing someone will make things easier in life. Not only in aviation but in everything else. Knowing someone could get you into USC. Knowing someone can get you into a big law firm. Knowing someone can get you to the playboy mansion. Knowing someone can can make life so much easier. Having connections will not only help in aviation, it will also help in life.
All around us people are getting jobs because of connections. Also, all around us people with out connections are getting hired.
Hell if I knew someone, I could probably get that FedEx job I want, to help pay for school and flight training.
Many people in my highschool got nice jobs because they knew someone, I didn't and got stuck working in Mc'Donnalds (flipping burgers for some pathetic superviser, who is a fricken moron, (I already quit, for personal reasons)).
The point is that knowing somone will make life easier in any profession. Everybody knows that. That's what business cards are for, that's why we act professional towards others, and try and leave a good impression.
All around us people are getting jobs because of connections. Also, all around us people with out connections are getting hired.
Hell if I knew someone, I could probably get that FedEx job I want, to help pay for school and flight training.
Many people in my highschool got nice jobs because they knew someone, I didn't and got stuck working in Mc'Donnalds (flipping burgers for some pathetic superviser, who is a fricken moron, (I already quit, for personal reasons)).
The point is that knowing somone will make life easier in any profession. Everybody knows that. That's what business cards are for, that's why we act professional towards others, and try and leave a good impression.
11-03-2006, 10:09 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 297
Originally Posted by calcapt
Actually my sister is not that good lookin, that's probably why it took so long!
. Don't lie CalCapt, the pilot recruiter was gay, and you had to do some work of you own. You neglected at first
, that's why it took so long. Just Kidding, a little humor doesn't hurt anybody.
11-03-2006, 10:16 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"most of the pilots who make it to the majors have had someone grease the system for them at some point"
In late 89 I had 1500 turbine, in a Convair, and 300 hours in the left seat. One type rating. I got hired at UPS knowing nobody. I know it wasn't glamorous but it made sense to me. My degree was from Riddle.
In late 89 I had 1500 turbine, in a Convair, and 300 hours in the left seat. One type rating. I got hired at UPS knowing nobody. I know it wasn't glamorous but it made sense to me. My degree was from Riddle.
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