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-   -   Is Pinnacle the next ComAir? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/69841-pinnacle-next-comair.html)

Saabs 09-04-2012 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by 9easy (Post 1255872)
This could be true except .. the new 9E is being built as a purely CR9 operation. The current group of CR9 captains, and many senior MSP FO's have no plans on leaving, no matter how bad things get. They are lifers with only a few years left, and they will ride the gravy train til the end, or until DL hires them. These guys are incredibly costly to employ compared to CP or GoJet, and a 25% pay cut will not change the fact that you have a large group of guys topped out on pay/vacation/401/sick/high insurance costs.

Couldn't agree more. What would captain Pete do?

Gearswinger 09-04-2012 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 1255888)
Couldn't agree more. What would captain Pete do?

Don't worry, Angry Pete will find something to complain about no matter the situation.

N2Core 09-04-2012 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by 9easy (Post 1255872)
This could be true except .. the new 9E is being built as a purely CR9 operation. The current group of CR9 captains, and many senior MSP FO's have no plans on leaving, no matter how bad things get. They are lifers with only a few years left, and they will ride the gravy train til the end, or until DL hires them. These guys are incredibly costly to employ compared to CP or GoJet, and a 25% pay cut will not change the fact that you have a large group of guys topped out on pay/vacation/401/sick/high insurance costs.

What is this industry coming to when pilots who have that kind of experience are being threatened by pay cuts and being penalized for years of service? We are all just contract pilots who don't even have the power to negotiate.

anthony210 09-04-2012 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by N2Core (Post 1255941)
What is this industry coming to when pilots who have that kind of experience are being threatened by pay cuts and being penalized for years of service? We are all just contract pilots who don't even have the power to negotiate.

The regional industry we have today was not designed to have people stick around for 10+ years.

I don't blame anyone for sticking around, its tough to find a job. But its the reason a lot of the airlines with the better contracts are finding themselves unable to compete with GoJets, Silver and the like. Majors want the cheapest bidder, not the regional airline with lots of guys at the top of the pay scale.

Ernst Kessler 09-04-2012 05:57 PM

Yes Pinnacle senior guys are a lead anchor, but the biggest problem is the inefficiencies. Pilots who are seat swapping only to not fly for 4 months while they are paying others 200% due to short staffing is more of the real issue. Pay differences of only 5-10 per hour isn't really that large in the grand scheme of things. Jet fuel is the real drag. The simple fact that the true CASM is considerably more than RASM is a deal killer.

Pinnacles big problem is they have way too many CRJ-200's with a handful of 900's. 200's simply are not profitable. Delta can't keep on flying routes that are a financial drain year after year. Tickets are bought no more than 6-9 months in advance. I see Delta winding down the 200 operation quickly. You just can't keep running an unprofitable branch of an operation.

anthony210 09-04-2012 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by Ernst Kessler (Post 1256012)
Yes Pinnacle senior guys are a lead anchor, but the biggest problem is the inefficiencies. Pilots who are seat swapping only to not fly for 4 months while they are paying others 200% due to short staffing is more of the real issue. Pay differences of only 5-10 per hour isn't really that large in the grand scheme of things. Jet fuel is the real drag. The simple fact that the true CASM is considerably more than RASM is a deal killer.

Pinnacles big problem is they have way too many CRJ-200's with a handful of 900's. 200's simply are not profitable. Delta can't keep on flying routes that are a financial drain year after year. Tickets are bought no more than 6-9 months in advance. I see Delta winding down the 200 operation quickly. You just can't keep running an unprofitable branch of an operation.

It is really not the 200, that plane makes money under the right circumstances. The issue is none of the legacy carriers have done any significant hiring in the last 10 years. This creates 2 problems. One is that pilots are stuck at regionals for a long time, thus increasing their seniority and pay. Second, once said pilots get to that top payscale at the regional they start to get in the mindset of "its not worth it" when they look at the paycut and QOL hits they would take if they went from RJ Captain to Mainline FO.

ShyGuy 09-04-2012 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by Gearswinger (Post 1255909)
Don't worry, Angry Pete will find something to complain about no matter the situation.

Come on, Pinnacle Pete isn't that bad! He had some good points on airlinkpilots.

ShyGuy 09-04-2012 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by anthony210 (Post 1256029)
It is really not the 200, that plane makes money under the right circumstances. The issue is none of the legacy carriers have done any significant hiring in the last 10 years. This creates 2 problems. One is that pilots are stuck at regionals for a long time, thus increasing their seniority and pay. Second, once said pilots get to that top payscale at the regional they start to get in the mindset of "its not worth it" when they look at the paycut and QOL hits they would take if they went from RJ Captain to Mainline FO.

There are guys that considered themselves 'above' a place like Spirit, VA, and JetBlue. Ok then. Good luck until Delta or American calls.

It's not like my current employer was my dream job, in fact, they've only been around for a few years. I would have preferred to stick around until Delta or American hired, but the changing dynamics of 9E has forced many pilots out. I took the first opportunity to get out, and have no regrets. I'm also not 'above' any LCC/major when it comes to working for them. In this industry, it's the luck of the draw, and I consider myself fortunate. But all that starts with a mentality that is to get out. For some at 9E, it came too late. Best of luck to all, and I hope pilots can get out sooner rather than later.

DMEarc 09-04-2012 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1256040)
There are guys that considered themselves 'above' a place like Spirit, VA, and JetBlue. Ok then. Good luck until Delta or American calls.

It's not like my current employer was my dream job, in fact, they've only been around for a few years. I would have preferred to stick around until Delta or American hired, but the changing dynamics of 9E has forced many pilots out. I took the first opportunity to get out, and have no regrets. I'm also not 'above' any LCC/major when it comes to working for them. In this industry, it's the luck of the draw, and I consider myself fortunate. But all that starts with a mentality that is to get out. For some at 9E, it came too late. Best of luck to all, and I hope pilots can get out sooner rather than later.

'Atta boy. Much better post. You must have had a good day!

fatsopilot 09-04-2012 09:20 PM


Originally Posted by 9easy (Post 1255872)
This could be true except .. the new 9E is being built as a purely CR9 operation. The current group of CR9 captains, and many senior MSP FO's have no plans on leaving, no matter how bad things get. They are lifers with only a few years left, and they will ride the gravy train til the end, or until DL hires them. These guys are incredibly costly to employ compared to CP or GoJet, and a 25% pay cut will not change the fact that you have a large group of guys topped out on pay/vacation/401/sick/high insurance costs.

So Skywest, ASA, Express and Republic don't have senior pilots? And they don't fly 50 seaters? This was just another way for Delta to control costs. Delta gave 9E the money because they knew it would put downward pressure on the industry and in the end put more money in the hands of the share holders. Pinnacle is just the first to the BK show, soon others will follow. Delta needs Pinnacle around so they can be the next GoJet and keep down regional costs. That is one theory at least.


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