It's the law. It doesn't matter if you think it's stupid. It's still the law. If he broke the law, he deserves a trial and appropriate punishment.

How about egl taking some of the hit for this. I mean, they employed him to begin with. Did they not know his age before hand?

You're right... they probably should have taken a sample from his trunk and counted the rings. :D

I've had a loved one murdered in cold blood. A job is nothing compared to the loss of that. You have no class. And yes, I sought justice and the guy is on death row right now.

And just like other stupid laws legalizing discrimination, this law will be gone soon as well. What I said was it will be interesting to see a government prosecutor get in front of a jury and defend age discrimination. Not that I expect to see it happen. Government lawyers aren't stupid and they know how to win cases. They'll make this guy an offer he would be stupid to refuse, and this will quietly go away.

But you can't control it, so by your logic it's nothing to "whine and cry" about. Right?

There isn't age discrimination to defend. The trial wouldn't be about age discrimination. It'd be about falsification of legal documentation and lying to a federal agency.

I'm glad you're confident it'll be gone soon, considering the entire reason Age 65 occured was to align with ICAO standards.

If it can be proven that he lied, then maybe some type of punishment would be warranted. Five years in a "pound your @#!" facility seems a little harsh. Did he endanger the flying public, I mean was there an incident or accident? I don't understand why people are so fast to throw the book at this guy. The airline industry has seen better times, life is difficult right now but why take your slow progression to the left seat out on a 69 year old pilot who wanted to stay in the cockpit a few more years? He's already been dismissed, I'm sure your upgrade is around the corner.

Because a requirement to be issued an ATP is to be of good moral character. If someone falsifies documentation and lies to a federal agency to benefit themselves, they certainly haven't maintained that.

Once again, to compare what happens to a loved one being murdered, to a job shows how utterly tasteless, classless, and ignorant you are. Nothing compares to the destruction of a human life and all the pain and damage it causes to those that experience such a loss, particularly murder. To compare this to murder is about as stupid as it gets. Grow up and get a clue.

The logic of it remains the same as per your original statements. He has a valid argument...

I'm so sure the defense attorney is just gonna sit there like a potted plant and do nothing to defend his client. All he has to do is go find the Air Force and neurology experts from UCLA that testified for Hoover to blow the FAA's case for age discrimination out of the water and its all over. But like I said, Federal Prosecutors are not stupid, and they will make this guy and offer he can't refuse and it will go away.

While working as a scheduler, I had an FO call me and refuse to fly with a Captain because he was sleeping with another guy's wife and didn't meet the "good moral character" clause and was not fit to hold his ATP. Please tell me this wasn't you.....

Anyone who thinks losing a job, an upgrade, or pay compares in any way to the loss of a life needs to get a serious reality check. Nothing compares to that. I'd point you to the 16 year old girl we had to raise because her mother was blown to pieces by a murderous thug, but if if you're so ignorant as to think that compares to losing your job, I won't waste the time.

I am so sorry to hear what happened. :( That young lady is very lucky to have you in her life to give her some semblance of normalcy after losing her mother in such a horrendous way. I hope the POS who committed the crime fries for this act. :mad:

I'm proving the failure of your logic. The point was not to hurt anyone, but to show how ridiculous the basis of your argument is.

It is estimated that 30 to 40 percent of people cheat on their taxes, which would constitute falsifying legal documents. My guess is that some of those people are airline pilots. Does this mean those people are not of good moral charcter? A pilot twists his ankle on an overnight, finishes his trip the next day, then goes to the doctor and finds out his ankle is broken, which disqualifies him medically. He probably should have taken himself off the trip, and has probably violated an FAR by not doing so. Is this guy of moral character? Some guy steals some medication that saves his child's life because he has been out of work for 18 months and really can not find the money to pay for it. Is this guy of moral character? What, exactly, is the definition of moral character? Has the FAA defined it?

My opinion is that the intent of the FAR's, as it relates to this guy, is to protect the public. There has been no evidence, as of yet, that shows that the public was at risk in any way. Was it wrong? Yes. Is it as big a deal as some people would like to make it out to be? Not really. Relax, Francis. It's one guy, and he is never going to fly as PIC again. Not even in a Piper Cub. That, to me, would be worse than anything the court could do to me.

I might refuse to fly with that individual too. If I don't respect the individual and think he is a total low-life and I feel that it may effect communication and safety of flight it is my duty to take myself off the trip.

We have all flown with people we don't care for, but there comes a point where you may have to bow out.

Nope, it wasn't me. Good for him though.

Here is your original statement, FlyingKat. Do you see where your logic runs invalid or do you really need it broken down for you? Even more ironic with what happened to your family member being murdered, which is absolutely horrible (and wasn't under your control- so why worry?)

If someone cheats on their taxes, then they are not of good moral character. I have a metal plate on the outer bone of my left ankle, & the scars to prove it. I didn't break it though, I just fractured it. It was so swollen that it was bigger then my calf, and turned black and blue. I couldn't put any weight on it. I had surgery on it days later(the orthopedic surgeon wanted to operate immediately but it was too swollen)and I was out medically for 3 months. I'm not sure someone could break their ankle, & NOT know it. But if one does break their ankle & somehow doesn't know, then I would say they're clean. WRT someone stealing, they also don't have good moral character. I can't say I wouldn't do so to save my child's life. But it's still wrong.

I'm not saying anyone was in danger. But just because he can still fly well at 69(if he is guilty)it doesn't exempt him from the law.

The operative phrase was that they were still functional enough to fly and didn't know that they had broken their ankle. That AtlSCIP's argument immediately.

I've twisted my ankle, pulled a calve muscle several times, and gotten various other maladies while running on layovers over the years. I was still perfectly capable of performing my duties so I continued with the trip. Sure, something more could have been wrong, but I had no indication of such as in his example. By Atl's logic, all those walking around with advanced heart disease that don't know it are of poor moral character.

Stealing for your child in that situation I would say is not a reflection on poor moral character. Doing so would likely hinder your ability later on to get a job if you got caught and convicted. Cheating on your taxes- obviously so.

You are making a ridiculous, absolutist argument. I was referring to conditions at work, beyond your control. To compare this to something like murder, is absurd.

prior to this entire thing unfolding, in the MIA Crew room Mens room, on the toilet seat cover bin, someone wrote "Captain Bueno for President 2012"......Someone made a nice addition, it now reads "Captain Beuno for 'AARP' President 2012". I got a GREAT laugh when I saw it.

Those were your words, not mine. :)

The comparison was yours

I didn't draw any conclusions or pass any judgement with any of the 3 scenarios I presented. My intention with the ankle was that the guy knew he was out medically, just hasn't been diagnosed. The entire point of my post was to try to stimulate a little rational thought before being so quick to pass judgement, maybe from the 'walk a mile in somebody else's shoes' perspective, and to point out that the 'moral character' issue is actually subjective and undefined.

In case I wasn't clear, I do think that what this guy did was wrong. I don't, however, believe it justifies jail time. Personal opinion.