I wonder why everyone says pilots pay is a small portion of cost for a regional airline. Most do not own any planes. Pinnacles pilots cost per year was around 180 million.

Bottom feeders probably taking the flying at a loss again if it`s true.

If you grab the pie the take a slice for maintenance, another for fuel, another for cost as insurance, hangars office space, employee training, HR, pay other workgroups and other misc expenses you will see that the pilot compensation is a very small piece of the pie considering we are who make the airplane fly!

Airlines continue to say pilot cost are very high but this cost also includes our training that is required by the regulations and shouldn't be taken against us, our compensations is a very small piece of the pie a very small percentage of the CASM but is an easy place for the airlines to make adjustments.

Labor costs are the largest operating expense besides fuel. Management has more control/leverage over labor costs than it does with insurance, hangars, office space, aircraft leases, maintenance, etc.

You need to break down labor cost further, then compensation and when it winds down pilot compensation is a very small part of the pie. Management has chosen to hit us over the head for pilot cost, meaning everything that is required by regulations that we have no control over. If you are a pilot you shouldn't be thinking like management, when they reduce pilot cost they reduce pilot compensation, not the other related cost that we get smacked over the head with...

Pilot costs at pinnacle for 2011 were 15% of total cost for the year. This does not include the training costs. That is pilot compensation only. Now I am not thinking the way management wants me to think I can think on my own. Just because I think we are a descent portion of regional airline cost does not mean i think we should take pay cuts. I am just stating that we are a descent portion of the cost for airlines. This all includes flying that is pro rated which pinnacle no longer does and aircraft that was owned by pinnacle. For 2013 and beyond pilot costs will be a much larger percentage of our companies cost.

Are you kidding???

Good point, I've been through the concession process at two different companies. It's amazing to hear the company (AND MEC at times) talk about how expensive pilot costs are, etc. When as mentioned, it's only a small piece of the pie. At a regional airline, the pilots are the largest labor group, as well as the highest line item cost. At a legacy, the pilots aren't the largest labor group, but are still the highest line item cost.

There used to be a mantra that at AA, the pilots (as well as everybody else) helped "save" the airline from BK when everyone else was going into BK. Well, didn't work out so well.

I had to try to figure it out myself. I've been in the business for 21 years and Regional airlines come and go. Many of us have more to do with our lives than try to stay current with the airline code of every airline out there.

Cause you take the bull by the horns and see how long you can ride for? don't hate on the fat ugly chicks, it always a sure thing when all the other options are out the door.

G7 Hiring
 

There was a thread on here about what, if any trouble that Republic was having attracting new hires.

That said, I know G7 has been gearing up and hiring. How in the heck are they getting applicants? Or are they?

Not another GoJet thread... Its getting old.

I love how people have resorted to using G7 when talking about Gojetsssss to try and slip under the radar.

No it's not. Just like the Tim Martins deal. Always a classic.
Isn't Tim doing wheelies on unicycles over at gojet now? Or was it Commute Air?

It was commute air but otherwise I agree 100% with this post and in 100% laughing my a-- off

I saw a picture on the C5 (CommutAir) Facebook group a few weeks ago...and I'm pretty sure Timmy has four bars now...

I do miss sitting in the crew room listening to him and his stories of practically single-handedly one-upping Mr. Chuck Yeager himself (complete with the same prick attitude).

Good for pointing that out. It's ironic for any 9E pilot to complain about GoJets and their growth today. All you have to do is go back in time to 1999. Pinnacle was Express 1, a virtually un-heard of airline that had a bunch of Saabs. Then the 1999 contract, aka jets-for-growth, was signed and started RJ FO wages of 16.xx and 2nd year 22-23/hr, with Captain pay not much better, first year ~ 50/hr. All of a sudden, Pinnacle was awarded a huge CRJ order from NWA, and the first CRJ came in 2000. From 2000-2006, Pinnacle took 140 CRJ-200s. From signing that utter P.O.S. contract in 1999, Pinnacle grew from a few dozen Saabs to 140 CRJs and no Saabs. The airline more than trippled in size in a matter of 5-6 years.

Fast forward to today, and Pinnacle/Mesaba is now one of the most senior pilot groups in the regional industry, with contract and training expenses above the regional industry norm. GoJets, a new entrant (think Pinnacle circa 1999) comes in cheaper and meaner, and stands to get tons of growth. So now people gets pi$$ed that GoJets is growing while another regional is shrinking? Were the pilots of Pinnacle, Comair, and ASA crying when they took dozens of RJs after 9/11, while mainline F100/DC9/737 pilots were hitting the streets?

In the end, this thread is a moot point. GoJets isn't doing anything that another regional hasn't already done in the past (take regional jets at the expense of someone else's career, be it another reigonal or mainline). The cycle repeats. In this example, back in the early 2000s, Pinnacle was growing at the expense of mainline NWA pilots, who were hitting the streets and. Today, GoJets is growing while Pinnacle/Mesaba is shrinking. Give it another 5-10 years, then GoJets will be a senior group, and they will lose their RJs to another new entrant that will start in 2017. The cycle basically repeats.

Dosent g7 have a no strike clause in their contract? Support from a non airline branch of the teamsters? I don't know that it will get very expensive for management, they have labor right where they want it!

And pilots tripping over each other to go there, truly sad!

The difference is go jet..... Is an alter ego airline. Who wouldn't exist if people had the integrity to not work there. It's an airline funded by TSA pilots. Very different than express 1.

TSA pilots aren't funding anything. Trans States Holdings owns TSA, GoJets, and Compass. GoJets started as an alter ego, but only because TSA's MEC decided that management was bluffing and decided to call them out on it. It didn't work. Hulas wanted the 70 seaters flown for a certain rate, and he was going to get it one way or another. Anyway, GoJets today isn't what GoJets was back when it first formed. And enough about "integrity" when it comes to working at a regional airline. All of us *****d ourselves out by accepting crappy regional airline wages in hopes to one day 'get ahead' in the industry.

GoJet will be the most successful regional airline, that is, until the next lower cost airline emerges. This WILL happen, thus, continuing the downward slide of this industry. If you work for one of these companies, you are part of the problem and are slitting your own throat for VERY short term gain.

amen brotha

Is that all regionals or just a particular few? If you are saying all regionals, then what is the alternative that you suggest to get to mainline other than military?

If you look at the thread by that analyst lady you actually see that at almost all the majors, the feed provided is broken down into a common setup. One or two 'better' regional's such as Skywest/XJET/PNCL/Eagle do the VAST majority of the feed, typically 60%+, sometimes over 80%. Then the remaining feed is broken down in small amounts to one or two crud product RJ airlines such as CHQ or TSH/GJET. Its clear their product is not something the mainlines want representing the express/connection/eagle brand, but they do want them there to whipsaw and keep the others in line. I dont think you will see GOJET become the main provider anywhere for that reason, and they may soon be approaching the end of their growth as they are maxing out on what they can do. Not to mention soon those pesky employees are going to start asking for something at least equal to EVERY OTHER RJ airline.

When was the last time GoJet got won flying with self financed planes? The UAL 700s? TS Holdings is small private company that runs on a thin budget. They will be given a small amount planes here and there just to keep the bigger guys costs in check.

Well said. My thoughts exactly. Many people say all regionals are the same but the operation of a GoJet vs Skywest Inc regional is like night and day. One does the bare bare minimum to operate daily and another provides a high quality operation at a reasonable cost.

ShyGuy, GoJets is exactly the same today as it was when it was formed. It is being used as a pawn against other airlines and pilot groups which is EXACTLY why it was formed in the first place. GoJets started as an alter ego and it still is an alter ego, just on a much bigger scale. I don't see Compass, which is it closest competitor in longevity, flying for United, American, or Airways. Therefore, GoJets is the exact same airline it was when it was formed and its virus like tendencies are spreading at an alarming rate.

Does it have to be legal?

Keep thing that any regional has a better product. PNCL/eagle/Asa/ whoever is no better

yes there are regionals that are better

Yes but bigger doesnt mean better... Rickt seems to think so though.

Bigger doesn't mean better(Mesa), but it seems higher quality, more expensive regionals, are given a larger share of regional feed by mainline partners.

AMR has an RFP out for 255 large regional jets. Just a rumor, but I've heard AMR is not even considering TSA Holdings due to past American Connection issues with TSA

For example, Comair has 60% of Delta's regional flying.

Oops, I meant they had 60%. I wonder if "more expensive" is why that percentage changed.

Oh silly misguided arrogance

Comair had unfortunate problem of being wholly owned. DAL is not a regional airline specialist. Comair was an after thought. Comair couldn't expand their flying outside the Delta Connection portfolio. Their unit costs must have skyrocketed to an unreasonable level

Comair is one end of the spectrum, Mesa is the other end. A regional finding the right cost balance while maintaining a decent quality operation will be best positioned to succeed.

Nevermind that TSA can't staff the, what, 18 airplanes it currently has? 255 is LAUGHABLE for the size that even all of TSH is.

Well I've heard opposite, so who is bigger?