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PinnacleFO 10-27-2012 09:04 AM

I disagree with you dash the only thing management at these places see is the dollar sign republic has 24 emb 145s they can get rid of and bring on emb 175s. Delta is trying to reduce their debt. What better way to do it than let someone else buy it. United and usair let republic fly for them delta probably doesn't care either.
You are logical but that's why your Wrong

Phuz 10-27-2012 09:37 AM


Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 1283478)
If DAL chooses the Embraer, I don't think that RAH will see any of them because Anderson views RAH as the competition. I don't think that he wants to give them additional revenue.

Disagree with you on this one, if DAL mgmt had a problem with RAH they would not have created a carve out for them on the new mainline contract holding company language. Now if you wanted to make a case for RAH's costs being higher, their completion factor / a14 numbers being worse, or the fact that shuttle america flies around the northeast at mach .64 then I could agree.

BlueMoon 10-27-2012 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by PinnacleFO (Post 1283483)
I disagree with you dash the only thing management at these places see is the dollar sign republic has 24 emb 145s they can get rid of and bring on emb 175s. Delta is trying to reduce their debt. What better way to do it than let someone else buy it. United and usair let republic fly for them delta probably doesn't care either.
You are logical but that's why your Wrong

The only way RAH or SkyWest will buy aircraft is with a longterm CPA from DAL. If they can't get that long term commitment they won't want to purchase aircraft they would be stuck with should they fall out of favor. That is why you will probably see DAL hold the leases on these planes and then be able to move them when one carrier steps out of line.



Also, under a capital lease, the lessee has pretty much all the benefits and risk of ownership. So the lessee (SkyWest, RAH, etc.) reports the leased asset on their balance sheet as an asset (equal to price of the lease) and as the lease as liability (price of the lease), thus essentially transferring it off of DAL's balance sheet (in the amount equal to the lease). Instead of it being listed as an expense (like say you renting a car), which is an operating lease.

Oh the wonderful dark world of accounting!

get there itis 10-27-2012 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1283425)
No. This is incorrect. DCI airframes (excluding turboprops with 37 seats or less and a MGTOW of 37,000 lbs) will be limited to 450. EMB140's would count toward the 450 limit.

Up to 9 of the EMB140's rah is going to operate as Delta Connection are carved out as a scope exemption. RAH is currently up to 29 EMB145's as Delta Connection.

johnso29 10-27-2012 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by get there itis (Post 1283528)
Up to 9 of the EMB140's rah is going to operate as Delta Connection are carved out as a scope exemption. RAH is currently up to 29 EMB145's as Delta Connection.

If they're being operated on contract where RAH shares the profits/losses, then they may not count against it. I'll have to read more.

The other thing to remember is it will take several years to see the changes take effect. Delta hasn't ordered any additional large RJs yet. Delivery will likely take 16-18 months after they're ordered. 44 B717's must be operating in revenue service before a single large RJ can show up. We won't have 44 B717's into service until 2015. 88 B717's must be online before all 70 additional large RJs can be added.

get there itis 10-27-2012 11:45 AM

The 2012 pwa allows rah to place up to 9 pro-rate 44 seaters in service, which are exempt from the cap. NWA ordered 36 ERJ-175's with options for 36 more. We are still holding those options. 4 are available to Delta as early as 2013, 18 in 2014, and the remaining after 2014.

Where are you getting the 44 717 number? I'm not aware of any such requirement. The trigger is that the company first establishes a new fleet of narrow body aircraft (1 76 seater for every 1.25 717's), and secondly reduces 50 seaters IAW a scale in 1.b.46.f.

Phuz 10-27-2012 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by get there itis (Post 1283554)
The 2012 pwa allows rah to place up to 9 pro-rate 44 seaters in service, which are exempt from the cap. NWA ordered 36 ERJ-175's with options for 36 more. We are still holding those options. 4 are available to Delta as early as 2013, 18 in 2014, and the remaining after 2014.

Whats your source on the options numbers? I'm not suggesting they're inaccurate, just haven't seen any public info from DAL on those post merger.

get there itis 10-27-2012 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by Phuz (Post 1283657)
Whats your source on the options numbers? I'm not suggesting they're inaccurate, just haven't seen any public info from DAL on those post merger.

2011 10k on sec.gov.

Phuz 10-27-2012 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by get there itis (Post 1283659)
2011 10k on sec.gov.

Thanks a bunch. Here's the link for anyone else:

DAL 12.31.2011 10K

johnso29 10-27-2012 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by get there itis (Post 1283554)
The 2012 pwa allows rah to place up to 9 pro-rate 44 seaters in service, which are exempt from the cap. NWA ordered 36 ERJ-175's with options for 36 more. We are still holding those options. 4 are available to Delta as early as 2013, 18 in 2014, and the remaining after 2014.

Where are you getting the 44 717 number? I'm not aware of any such requirement. The trigger is that the company first establishes a new fleet of narrow body aircraft (1 76 seater for every 1.25 717's), and secondly reduces 50 seaters IAW a scale in 1.b.46.f.

That's what I remember being told by a DALPA rep. Perhaps I misunderstood him. WRT delivery times, I'm quoting Richard Anderson. That's what he stated on the latest earnings call.


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