Shy let me ask you, what do you think is more acceptable? An airline to hire a 250 hour pilot (such as yourself, when pinnacle gave you an opportunity that no other regional would have given you) or a flow from a regional to mainline for QUALIFIED pilots,(has degree, has enough flt time, no criminal record ect)?

The answer is neither, flows are terrible in practice and they also cost negotiating capital that can be spent elsewhere. Scope recapture is what needs to happen.

You mean like that guy that runs the jetcareers website? He was hired at Delta while a Beech 1900 copilot at Skyway. But according to him, he deserved to get hired at Delta when he did.

Thank you Shy!
Unbelievable, yeah I met a 26 year old Delta FO years ago,
who was hired while an ASA FO, but she was pretty forth right and knew why she was hired( well at least why she got an interview, I believe YOU get the job, getting the interview, well that's another matter).

Lets be fair, he did upgrade to Captain at Skyway, but had less than 1000 hrs TPIC when hired at Delta. I think it was about 2900 total and 700-800 TPIC. But what does that matter? I don't think he said he deserved to get hired at Delta. Delta right now requires 1200 total and 1000 turbine (SIC or PIC). Even a guy at a regional airline for one year qualifies for those minimums.

Neither. Regionals shouldn't be hiring at 250 hrs but they did because of the wages being offered and not enough pilots showing up at the door. You're right at my opportunity, it was just luck and timing. But I do think it's crazy the opportunity I got. As for flow, I'm against it. Everyone should have to interview, and then earn the right to work there if they pass the interview process.


[quote]Compose myself? What do you know about me that would hinder myself in an interview? I didn't compose myself or fake anything. At all my interviews I've done so far, I've always been just me. Nothing fake, just honest and being myself.

So? Good for him! He used his connections and networked. Are you saying you don't feel like u deserve to be hired? If so u need to go get some self confidence man.

C&C Music Factory Lyrics - Things That Make You Go Hmmmm....

5000 TT, 2000 TPIC, none of those 3 groups.

Dad was an NW pilot that retired in 2004, and I was hired by DL a year and a half before the merger was even announced. DL didn't know nor care who my dad was.

I had 2 referrals from retired non mgmt line pilots.

Not many of the people I know of that got interviewed fit in your 3 hook up categories. In fact, they are very much a minority of who gets called for interviews. Last round the hard floor for an interview no matter gender, race, or who mom/dad is was 4000 hours. The pilots' kids appeared to have a horrible pass rate in the interview. I know some were hired, but every one of them that I know did not get hired.

Doug deserved every bit of what he has got (and I thought he upgraded), and has paid it forward to other aspiring pilots more than anyone I've ever seen. Calling him a class act is an understatement.

Thanks for the honest answer. You had very good qualifications and you deserve your spot at Delta..However if you were hired 1.5 years before the merger with 2000 TPIC you were probably gone from PNC before I was even hired.... Anyway, I'm not trying to bash anyone at Delta or any mainline, I think many of us regional guys are very frustrated and trying to figure out this - hard to crack code - on how to get an interview with a good mainline, many, many, many of us are well qualified but our phone remains silent..

The problem with flow agreements (from a pilot's perspective)

• Require management to keep a promise to hire pilots (something management has a lousy track record at)
• Still requires the pilot to give up their longevity at the door
• Does not protect pilots at mainline, or the flow up carrier, from whipsaw
• Does not protect pilots at mainline, or the flow up carrier, from furlough
• Give pilot an empty promise in exchange for (usually) lower pay rates and stagnation

In the case of Mesaba / Pinnacle, it is my opinion flow agreements make less sense from a management perspective. At Delta's wholly owned carriers you had Delta managers running the show to Delta's standards. ASA flight operations is still run by a former Delta Flight Operations Manager. (C.T.) Further, I would hope Delta feels some sense of compassion for the Comair pilots.

The Mesaba / Pinnacle flow was to Northwest. An airline which merged, but which no longer exists.

Just my opinions about other's opinions. 10,000 hour Captains can be taught an after landing flow (it had been eight years since I'd ever done one). Overall, flying at Delta is much easier than flying at a regional. Dispatch and Maintenance rarely throw you under the bus. The Douglas equipment can be a challenge for pure RJ guys (going backwards 30 years in systems tech) but will feel like home for old school turboprop drivers.

Last I've heard Delta intends to honor the flows. Don't know how they will handle some of the specific issues (which can't be discussed on a web board).

[QUOTE=ShyGuy;1312445]Neither. Regionals shouldn't be hiring at 250 hrs but they did because of the wages being offered and not enough pilots showing up at the door. You're right at my opportunity, it was just luck and timing. But I do think it's crazy the opportunity I got. As for flow, I'm against it. Everyone should have to interview, and then earn the right to work there if they pass the interview process.


I'm fake as hell at an interview.

Code Cracking:

• Major has to be hiring (the biggest obstacle)
• Competitive flight times and education (majority of my class had 6,500 hours, over 3,500 121 Jet PIC and a Master's degree)
• Internal Recommendation(s) ... (I had four who had flown with me ... if a mainline guy rides your jumpseat & seems friendly, ask him, don't be shy)
• Take good care of customers ... a couple of "atta boys" at your current airline helps and will give you good stories for the interview
• Be involved in your community (be a giver, not a taker ... a leader, not a shaker)
• Do something extra at your current job (Line Check Airman, Safety, even Pro Standards volunteer)

You want to get hired at the front of the wave. When the door opens the "best" get hired first. 80KTS got in before me. I delayed my interview by a week because or scheduling conflicts and I wanted to be extra prepared. That cost me something around 250 seniority numbers after the merger. Guess the moral of my story is, get the gouge and prepare every time you hear the rumor of hiring ... remain focused on the goal at all times, with every customer interaction.

Thanks Bar, this should be taught in class for those aviation degrees.... I'd be honored to sling gear for ya.

Management tried hard to back out of it, why DALPA took the other side is crazy.

That's the problem. Too many guys fake themselves instead of just being who they really are. Then spend $600 at a company that basically "teaches" them how to interview. It isn't that hard. If you are a nice guy and they see themselves being able to get along with you on a 4-day trip, you'll be fine. Too many people think it's just about the total hours or turbine PIC, but it isn't. Not anymore.

Let me make this clear:

If this offer is included in the TA, YOU MUST COMPLETELY IGNORE IT.

The only reason progression would be included is to cloud your judgement and sway you to vote yes. If it is indeed included, it is likely because the rest of the TA is garbage.

Pop.

So you should tell them you want to be paid at least $100,000/yr, salary, don't like working with incompetent people or lazy people, you'll tell the captain he better call in sick or you'll call him in drunk, your last boss was a jerk that treated workers like crap, you'd rather know what bases are available and how long you'll have to sit on reserve, tell them that you're just there for the 1000 PIC and then you're off to the majors, and what kind of airplane will I be in?


EVERYBODY is faking it.

The successful ones are faking it well, while being personable, making carefully thought-out statements that show they are human and are professional.

No. Why lie? I already knew what salary I would be getting so no point arguing that. No one likes working with incompetent people so no point in saying that stuff. I have always been honest in all my interviews. Long term, I told at my regional interview I'd like to move on to a major. I was honest and hired. You'd be lying if you said you're gonna stay there for life, unless you are an older guy and don't plan on moving on.

For my current airline interview, same honest thing. I was asked where I saw myself in 10 years. I said I was married with no kids yet. I was also saving up for a mortgage. I said in 10 years I am hopefully a homeowner and a father. That honestly where I see myself in 10 years. I got hired with honest answers.

I don't do interviews and I feel like you've omitted information. Let me put it to you this way. Do you want to be working here in ten years or a different airline? I always think that is what they mean by that question. You kinda dodged the question. I think you have a good tactic. You have found an interview loophole.

You should check your email instead, that's how they do it.

:D Anyway best of luck, hopefully hiring starts soon. Ish. This decade. Maybe.

I gave an honest answer. They didn't ask in terms of employer.

I just don't see any way around this. What pilot group is going to spend negotiating capital, and lots of it, to fund every new hire starting at or near max longevity everything? All new hires making 140/hr with 5 weeks vacation and 240 hours of sick time would be a very expensive item to secure. Talk about "what do you want to give up for that".

Not to mention until a pilot flows, that pilot isn't on property. This is just never going to happen.

You can't tell me with a straight face that when he got hired at Delta he wasn't the "token minority" hire.

I know this post has been left in the dust, but Doug is a pioneer for early aviator education. His website breathed life into this one. He helped me go from a high school senior to airline captain just by listening and reading what he and other had to say. Doug didn't deserve his spot at Delta, HE EARNED IT.

Nominee for DBAG post of the year.

Educate us on how he "earned" his spot at Delta? Young, low time, small turboprop pilot. How was he more "competitive" than other applicants at Delta other than being a MINORITY?

Dude - you know not of what you speak. With an attitude like that you'd get torn limb from limb at Delta.

We have this thing about entitlements at Delta. We hate them.

What Delta does like are young, low-time, talented aviators (read turbo-prop pilots). Why would Delta hire a 55 year old with 17000 hours over a 28 year old with 3500 hours? Because statistically the 28 year old with 3500 hours will have a lower rate of training failure. Plain and simple.

The interview process over the last 20 years has been color blind. While Delta certainly enjoys a close relationship with OBAP, or whoever's scholarship recipients were getting 737 types in our simulators, the interview process was made to be gender and race neutral. You must be confusing United with Delta or something.

You owe Doug an apology and you might as well quit paying the $60 a year to have your Delta app in.

+1. His website has done more to educate me on this industry then anywhere else I can think of. If I had to say two people who have helped me the most in this industry it would be him and 80kts, and I dont even know Doug personally.

Yes delta shouldn't hire turbo prop pilots anymore! I mean, my mom could explain the Saab electrical system it was so easy. :rolleyes:

What!? :confused: (thread drift)

I'll get right on that apology thing. And in spite of what Deltoids think, I already fly for the most coveted major and it's NOT Delta!

How hard can it be? It's a commuter plane after all.

GF thinks ya have a big head huh?

I'll bite...

In your opinion, which is "the most coveted major"?

This shall be interesting

So you at purple and think you are a god?

Doug's a good guy, and you should use both sides of your brain. Feel free to throw your grenade down the aisle. Or I guess it's more of your head overheating. Too bad the fire suppression stops at the net.

Does this make you part of the 5%? All of your posts are condescending to those that are giving their all to be at a major, or God forbid your own carrier. Where did you come from? Regionals/military? You have to start somewhere. Good job on the "paying it forward" mindset.

It is very obvious that you have not been in the industry long or are just plain stooopid. Todays hero is tomorrows zero. Hell, at one point usair was the place to go.

Airways is the place to go right now, becuase they are hiring, and will have crazy retirements in the near future.

Great and when you are a Captain, you can earn fourteen bucks an hour less than a FO on the same equipment at Delta.

I'd go to Pinnacle before US until that USAPA mess is straightened out. There may be some fantastic individual pilots over there, but collectively they the Gulfstream / Mesa / Freedom of the legacy carriers.

... at least better than GoJetsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.