Airline Pilot Central Forums - PCL TA Reached. all 200's gone

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1313914)

Does this sound familiar? Wasn't Comair reduced to 88 planes, and then 44, and then 0? With this TA, when it passes, end of 2014 Pinnacle is only 81 CR9s. Why have some of the most senior DCI pilots fly 81 planes, that could be done cheaper at GoJets and/or Compass? Sometime in 2014 or 2015 they'll say Pinnacle is losing the 40 CR9s and will be down to 41 planes total. Then, like Comair, Pinnacle folds as the 41 are then transferred elsewhere.

This! This is a game. They will exit bankruptcy and then realize that with the most junior CA at 13 yr pay and the most junior FO at 7 yr pay profitability is impossible with only 81 airplanes. They will ask for pay cuts to make the company work but it will already be too late.

Things to do NOW. Reduce expenses at home (cut cable, get a cheaper cell phone, cancel gym membership etc), put more money into your hopefully established emergency fund, research your states unemployment and job finder benefits, update logbook and resume, and start job hunting. Good luck everyone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200Driver (Post 1314024)

Some will never get it ... :D

Was that sarcasm to my comment? It's hard to decipher your tone with this post.

It's going to be a tough sell to try and convince most of the FO's to vote for this TA when a lot of them won't have a job unless additional flying opportunities are secured.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1313914)

With 810 pilots on property your looking at like 8 and 9year FOs being the junior ones!
I can almost guarantee this gets voted in and 9E becomes the worst airline to work for again, and the bar is lowered to the very bottom.
I really don't think this has set in yet to our group. In 2 years a 10 year capt will be an FO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saabs (Post 1313685)

Ohhhhh yeah pilot shortage. Forgot about that. Started last week right? I got my 1,000 and never failed anything.... Why aren't I in the right seat of a 76 goin to Europe next week?

Cuz u cant check any boxes that "cannot be used for hiring decisions and are purely used to collect applicant data."

It is amazing how quickly the small gap that was between 50 seat pay and 90 seat pay has vanished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellwolf (Post 1314050)

I wouldn't even say mainline is "taking it back." They're replacing CRJs with, well, bigger CRJs. I'm all for limiting scope, but the new dragon is in the codeshares. Mainline management (Delta in particular it would seem) has now found their new cash cow: let foreign carriers operate your international routes for you and generate cash via a codeshare. That's the new scope people will be looking back on in 5-10 years thinking "Why did we let THAT genie out of the bottle?" Kinda like the whole RJ think up until a few years ago.

Actually, it's called a Joint Venture. And DALPA leads the industry in protections against it. For instance, the AF/KLM/Alitalia/DAL Joint Venture splits flying among the pilot groups. DAL pilots get 50% of the flying, and the other half is split between AF/KLM/Alitalia pilot's. DAL pilots contract prohibits exactly what you suggest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1314087)

What happens with Virgin? Is it considered different since Delta owns a chunk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone Palm (Post 1314079)

It's going to be a tough sell to try and convince most of the FO's to vote for this TA when a lot of them won't have a job unless additional flying opportunities are secured.

Not only those guys, but the guys that are currently junior CAs. I was bidding above 50% in JFK, and this deal would put me on the street, or VERY close to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellwolf (Post 1314050)

I wouldn't even say mainline is "taking it back." They're replacing CRJs with, well, bigger CRJs. I'm all for limiting scope, but the new dragon is in the codeshares. Mainline management (Delta in particular it would seem) has now found their new cash cow: let foreign carriers operate your international routes for you and generate cash via a codeshare. That's the new scope people will be looking back on in 5-10 years thinking "Why did we let THAT genie out of the bottle?" Kinda like the whole RJ think up until a few years ago.

But you are correct. Pinnacle is not expensive. The latest contract brought us more or less up to what XJT/Skywest/ASA was in terms of costs. In terms of work rules, those guys still had some things better. If we couldn't compete cost wise with comparable DCI carriers with that contract, it wasn't the pilots fault, it was poor management. And if you looking at the training debacle that's been going on for over a year at 9E, it's pretty obvious where most of the losses have been coming from. When you've got 200+ guys sitting at home getting paid guarantee to do nothing, you've made a miscalculation somewhere. I don't blame those guys for working the system that way. I blame management for setting up the system by trying to get everything done all at one in a race to beat some timeline they themselves put in place.

As for not furloughing until next year, I believe the union e-mail even said furloughs starting in early 2013, but hey. Maybe everyone will take an ELOA! They've got 200+ guys in the pipeline already waiting for training. A lot of those guys are junior guys that were already displaced two or three times. If they're on the bottom of the list, it's a win-win for management. They can reduce the work force AND stop paying someone waiting on training all at once.

ALPA's already working on some kind of "grandfather" clause for the ATP requirement. If that goes through, Pinnacle will absolutely stop with the ATPs. I can bet you they're already running numbers to see how many FOs need ATPs, how junior they are and when they're likely to get furloughed. One thing that management IS good at is counting beans. Somehow, DW will still have a job when the dust settles. That's what amazes me.....

WHEN WILL MORE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS?! Your paycheck is small potatoes compared to the overall efficiency of the operation. That is the part of the equation management is tasked with: the efficient use of resources in the pursuit of profit. Hard to accomplish the latter when all you do is fart away the former.