I'm out since I don't work at 9E anymore, but I CAN tell you exactly how I would vote if I were still there and what it would take to bring me into a "yes" vote. Simply put: pay me while I'm furloughed, including health care. I don't care about non-rev benefits, but other guys might. Flow? Don't care. I already ran the numbers on that, and I'd likely make it to Delta being hired off the street faster than with a flow with my seniority. Unless they flip the payscale upside down and have the junior guys paid MORE than senior guys right up until they get furloughed, I don't see a good many junior guys saying "yes" to this. Anything outside of a min guarantee post furlough with medical benes for me and my family would trigger a "no" vote from me. Management has constantly come to the pilot group to fix their screw ups. It would be 7 years of doing that were I still there. I was done with that after the first 2 years.....

I'd really like to see an updated seniority list. Our current one is 4 months old, and it would be nice to see where we all stand.

I'll see if I can get crew staffing to post an "official" copy on flypinnacle.

I heard the proposed Delta flow today. No one will be happy. It's not a flow at all and will by no means even come close to pushing this TA through.

you dont want a flow for christmas. you'll shoot your eye out kid....

I heard the opposite, lots of people in a short amount of time.

Vague much?

lol this...

I really don't care either way but I haven't seen it on paper but I'm like 95% sure your info is bad.

Lets hear what y'all got. We'll know soon enough who's got the bad info...

In all likelihood the Pinnacle contract binds Pinnacle.

My guess is that Pinnacle has promised to somehow link to Section 1, D11 of the Delta PWA (I have no idea the language on something like that). In past practice such a provision has not been held binding on Delta.

If Pinnacle was able to one up the other ALPA represented DCI carriers, then there may be a problem at National. Section 40 allows other MECs to comment on bargaining during the Presidential Review period. Further, I am uncomfortable with one airline's management team cutting deals with another airline's pilots, on principle.

Not sure how that would work without a) overstaffing mainline or b) violating the other flow agreements

These flow agreements are in opposition to ALPA's own long standing goals in it's Administrative Manual. Based on Section 40, those who have lost their employment should be a higher priority than those who want to flow up to the parent legacy.

If I were a Comair pilot, I would be asking the President of the Association not to sign a contract which violates ALPA's own Admin Manual.

Well, it looks as if some have had more successful "best efforts" than others. Goals are not the same as hard requirements. That is not binding as I read it, and would be pretty flimsy grounds for pursuing any "me too" type claim or what you ask of Moak.

Yep, IIRC CPZ gets a guaranteed % of each class.

As we've been told, the deal was between 9E management and Delta management. The deal is then being offered by 9e management to the pilots in a workaround to the DAL-DALPA exclusivity agreement.

That's a serious slap to the face by DL management to DALPA.

I'm sure DALPA was told what was going on, hell they negotiated this in DC at national.

I dont think i like where this is headed.....

Did DALPA "secure contract language in... [D]ALPA agreement which provides for the preferential hiring of ALPA-represented pilots displaced by furlough, bankruptcy, shutdown or strike." ? If the language isn't secured then the goal of the admin manual doesn't apply.

"Best effort" to secure first rights to an "interview" is pretty broad. I don't see that standing up in court if contested.

Does not have to stand up in "Court." Only has to stop Lee Moak from signing the deal.

There is precedent for ALPA's President to not sign a concessionary agreement. This violation of ALPA's Adminitrative Manual is a policy justification. The larger issue is Tom Wychor's attempted end run around the Delta pilots' exclusivity in dealing with Delta management.Yes. It is in our Section1.

(hence, why I do not like another airline cutting deals that modifies our language) ALPA fought a long a bloody war over this issue.

Four pages of speculation of what may be or may not be in the TA. Awesome

Bingo, Dingo. Good summary. We have no idea of what's in the TA. My guesses aren't very optimistic.

Saw the e-mail that says their still hammering out the language on the TA. Looks like you might have a whopping three weeks to read and vote on it. No rush, though.....

Or we could pull a Pelosi and say we have to vote yes on it to see what's inside it!

That is what the majority of guys do anyway. They might read the ALPA highlights of the TA but that is about it. Very few read any part of the TA. Just like most do not pay attention to the court documents and what is going on in the BK.

Biggest ripoff in 2012
 

1. Sean Menke, former CEO of Pinnacle Airlines
And the winner of all losers is... Sean Menke of the now-bankrupt Pinnacle Airlines! Back in early April I noted that I'd seen some questionable pay raises in my time, but this one may take the cake as the head-scratcher of them all. Despite filing an extension with the Securities and Exchange Commission reporting that Pinnacle's quarterly filing would be late, Menke filed an 8-K indicating that he'd be receiving a 60% boost in pay to $675,000 from $425,000 -- despite the fact that his airline was far from profitable.
Now here's where things really got interesting. Just 11 days after his pay raise was filed with the SEC, Pinnacle filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection -- on April Fool's Day, no less. I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to! Furthermore, activist shareholders had made an attempt to get board representation on Pinnacle in prior years, as management had, in their eyes, not looked out for their best interests -- but they were eventually denied by the board.

In my humble opinion, a company can only go on like this for so long before it's D - O - N - E, DONE.

It's like a Ford pinto with the crank shaft bent, plugs fried, carb gummed up, gaskets leaking, radiator clogged, belt broken, engine mounts rusted through, valves burned up, tires bald, wheels out of alignment, cv joints not lubed, bearings worn, radio stolen, windows shattered, check engine light on, metal shavings in oil, timing off, throttle cable jammed, alternator not charging, battery low on water, brake lines frayed, power steering pump frozen, pads worn, rotors warped.....

...........AND THE REDNECK DRIVERS ARE STILL BRINGING IT TO THE "RACE WHAT YOU GOT" EVENT EVERY FRIDAY-F'N-NIGHT!!! GIVE IT A F'N REST FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!! TAKE IT TO THE F'N DUMP!!!!

So young, so angry! Darn that Rap music!

It might seem that way ...

Instead it is more like the facade on a movie set. Behind the veneer of a flight operations department stands a billion dollar global marketing and production machine. When management gets tired of one scene, they just move the set pieces.

The answer is a single seniority list within a brand. Absent that solution, the next best would be agreements which would allow subcontractors to scope their flying.

Mainline pilots are grappling with these issues as they find themselves in international conglomerates where they are effectively subcontractors. Of course, they negotiate production balance language, but have thus far been ineffective in enforcement.

If ALPA is going to change the rules to allow Pinnacle to negotiate Section 1 with Delta, then why not use that new power to scope flying away from a non union carrier? After all ALPA has no responsibility to SkyWest, or Republic. If ALPA would use it's power in that way, the union would be much more relevant than it is today.

The MEC reconvened at 7 p.m. this evening to consider whether to send the Tentative Agreement to the membership for ratification. The Negotiating Committee presented the final language for the Restructuring Agreement (which amends the terms of the JCBA) and a Bridge Agreement among Delta, Pinnacle, and ALPA (which includes fleet commitments and career progression, as well as longevity transition payments). After a full review of the documents, the MEC voted unanimously to recommend that the membership ratify the TA.



The Tentative Agreement differs substantially from the management’s 1113 proposal, but falls short of the original expectations of the MEC and the Pinnacle pilots. It reflects that Pinnacle Airlines is a financially insolvent entity in a regional industry that is contracting. These facts left Pinnacle wholly dependent upon Delta Airlines for survival. The terms of the Bridge Agreement recognize the pilots’ contribution to Pinnacle’s restructuring and provide us with a binding commitment from Delta that our airline will consist of at least 81 CRJ 900 aircraft. The Bridge Agreement also provides all Pinnacle pilots on the ISL with a career path to Delta. We view this as a significant achievement. However, because some of our pilots will face furlough as a consequence of the planned reduction of the CRJ 200 fleet over the next 2 to 3 years, the Bridge Agreement provides for furlough benefits packages that include pay, health care, passes, and an ATP for those with the requisite number of hours. Long Term Leaves (including Enhanced Long Term Leaves) will continue to be offered over the next several years, and we believe these leaves will greatly reduce the number of furloughs. The total number of projected furloughs for all of 2013 is approximately 150 pilots.



We plan to start road shows tomorrow in MSP (see details below), and we will release the full Tentative Agreement at that time. You will find that there are provisions that reflect the dire situation in which we find ourselves, but you will also find that numerous provisions that are important to us remain unchanged.



The MEC is recommending the Tentative Agreement to the membership for ratification not only because it is the only viable alternative to a wind down of the airline that would have been accomplished within approximately one year, but also because it provides all of our pilots with a meaningful range of options that would not otherwise have been available. Our goal was to ensure that all of our pilots are treated equitably in this transition, and although the provisions of the TA will affect pilots differently, we believe that you will find that the outcome is balanced.



The fact that this bankruptcy negotiation persisted as long as it did reflects our determination to get the best deal possible for our pilots. The bankruptcy court’s decision in our favor prevented us from facing unilaterally imposed terms and conditions, but could not change Pinnacle’s circumstances. It bought us time to negotiate terms that were far more favorable than those that were proposed by the company in August. We have attempted to offset or minimize the concessions every step of the way.



The irony of reaching a Tentative Restructuring Agreement exactly two years after the TA on the JCBA is not lost on any of us. All collective bargaining agreements reflect the economic environment in which they are negotiated, and this one is no exception. This TA represents a transitional period in which we hope to rebuild our contract and provide a stable platform from which our pilots will move to Delta and to other airlines as well.



We know that you will carefully consider all of the alternatives before you cast your vote in the New Year. We look forward to addressing your questions and concerns on the road shows, all-pilot calls, and through your P2P representatives. Thank you for your patience and support, and for maintaining a thoroughly professional and safe operation during a very challenging period.



Well there you go. I'll bet 50.1

Pinnacle will cease to exist in few years. If this TA is voted down, it will cease to exist in a year. History shows almost all pilot TA'S pass. This one will be no exception.

It really is bad no matter what for PNCL. Do you want some jobs to last for at least 3 years with movement opportunity for all.....OR see it all gone in a year or two with no advantages.

It's a matter of $ucks or $ucks a lot more.

Not to mention the judge would probably impose it anyway even if the pilots vote it down.

Don't know that I could say that with any confidence. Some parts of the puzzle are not fitting into place yet. Ed Bastian's comments at the investor's day seemed very non committal on whether Delta was buying the CRJ900, if they were leased, or if a regional airline was going to pick up the Cap Ex.

Skywest has been very smart in knowing when to say no and when to say yes. They have the balance sheet to buy, or lease, those airplanes very competitively. Republic does too, but it is imagined less so. Pinnacle is a bit of a question mark. Lessors / Banks / Bondholders would likely base their underwriting on how closely Delta were bound to an agreement. Bombardier has in the past demanded much lengthier terms than Embraer.

Further, Pinnacle seems to have a special place in the heart of the NWA managers that run Delta. They sure had little nostalgia for Comair.

Northwest is a different animal than Delta.

Delta actually values customer service.

Pinnacle is viewed among Delta with great disgust.

The Delta pilots see a bunch of hatless, backpack-wearing, immature, inexperienced kids with loosened up ties, punked out grapheti all over their flight bags, showing up to the plane at the last second, making poor decisions enroute, who can't talk on the radio professionally, clogging up the airwaves in our nations biggest airports, lowering the ontime statistics and completion factor, and bringing shame to the Delta brand.

And, the passengers agree! People HATE riding on RJ's.


For anyone of you who think voting for this TA will give you a flow through to Delta, you need to lay off the pot, crack, cocaine and heroin. Ever since 9-11, regional pukes have been taking over jobs at the majors. Delta STILL has pilots on furlough TODAY! From the top seniority to the bottom seniority, all of the NWA and DAL pilots were effected in some negative way. During the regional boom in the early 2000's ALL these pilots were either furloughed, displaced, demoted to first officer, demoted to a lower paying plane or reduced in overall percentage seniority. They have NOT forgotten. They HATE Pinnacle pilots and it is clearly evident when you jumpseat with them. Mentioning who you work for to them, is a conversation stopper. It's as if you told them you have Aids, Hepatitus, and HIV, they are disgusted and want to take a step back. On the surface most seem to shake your hand and be professional, but it's sooo obvious that deep down inside, you are viewed as the enemy.

Their is still an enormous grudge that the major pilots have. Keep in mind, the majority of them worked for decades to get there. They flew in the military, or gained a great level of experience as civilians. They don't want scumbag pilots (in their view) getting a free ride at a legacy carrier when all they have ever done is get hired at the second worst airline in the worlds history (Mesa being the first).

This flow through will never happen, no matter what is in writing, at least not to a group of pilots who were slated as taking over their jobs at a fraction of the cost. They want blood, and this time they will get it.

At one time Pinnacle was Richard Anderson's baby, he had significant controlling stock in it personally. I also believe our former CEO Phil Ternary was Anderson's college roommate.

Tell us how you really feel, Pinchanickled. :)

FWIW, the pilots that DL has "on furlough" are only there voluntarily. They bypassed recall. This next round of recalls will be their last chance to come back (except for a handful of NW guys who got furloughed a second time, thus resetting the clock).

What on earth are you rambling on about??? I've had zero trouble with mainline pilots, they even say hi back to me when walking through the airport. You need to take some Pepto Bismol man and a cold shower.

So how long until dalpa formally comes out against this?

After looking at the cuts and reading the "bridge agreement" I can honestly say it may not even come to that. Im usually an optimistic kind of guy, but I can barely stomach reading this thing...