The cost of work
12-18-2012, 02:10 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by BenS
Wow, well, talk about giving capitalism a slap in the face...
If the last 5 years has not been an indictment on Capitalism, and with a cyclical understanding of American History with the same conditions every 80 years, then what else does one need to know that the current form of Capitalism is a farce.
Capitalism isn't even capitalism.
If it bothers you that it costs money to go to work and make money, then quit spending the money to go to work.. you'll find really fast that we earn much more than it costs us to go make it. An investor can invest millions and may win or lose it all, you have to spend $150 a month to get to work to make whatever wage you will make, sounds like a decent investment to me. Beats not going to work and not making anything at all.
Did the CEO (and executive board) earn the percentage he took from your labor? Well, lets see, the executive board in aviation must negotiate airplane leases/ purchases, must negotiate purchase of other equipment. They must also set a ticket price that will allow them to fill the planes but also make enough to pay you and other costs. They are also responsible for advertising the company, setting route structure and changing the direction of the company in an ever changing market. Frankly, if there was no CEO who took nothing from your labor, there would be no labor for you to earn anything from. Do executives take more than they are owed? Perhaps thats up for debate, but are executives owed some share from my labor? Yes, I do believe so.
Should you, at a minimum, be allowed to determine the terms your labor is used? Thats called "right to work". In a union world, your work contract is negotiated between the company and your union. In the non-union world, your worth is set in part by your demands and in part by the market forces that determine your worth.
Even slaves have a right to quit? In a historical context, I thought slaves were property that was owned and traded, and refusal to work was punishable by death? But yea, I suppose today they'd have a right to quit, but that goes along with right to work laws.
Even slaves have a right to quit? In a historical context, I thought slaves were property that was owned and traded, and refusal to work was punishable by death? But yea, I suppose today they'd have a right to quit, but that goes along with right to work laws.
But even with union labor... a person doesn't truly own their work. Lack of ownership is lack of control....
So if not capitalsim, what system do you propose better for the people?
Propose a system in which people determine the terms in which they live their lives, including the work place, not a political or economic elite. Not sure that has ever been done and perhaps too utopic. However, nothing wrong with calling BS on the status quo.......
Last edited by Snarge; 12-18-2012 at 02:20 PM.
12-18-2012, 02:31 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by DryMotorBoatin
Settle down Marx.
12-18-2012, 02:35 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: UniCal 737 FO
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
You totally buff?
BEEFCAKE!!!
BEEFCAKE!!!
12-18-2012, 02:55 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
I got curious so I did a breakdown of the direct cost of my job. I live in base and I am on reserve.
Here is the breakdown.
Average days at home (H): 16.8 per month
Average days at work (W): 13.2 per month
Average time I get activated (A): 6 times a month
Round trip cost to go to work (C): $16.50
Amount I tip van driver (T): $1.00 per ride
Average uniform upkeep (U): $5.00 per trip
Average amount I spend on food at home (FH): $300.00 per month
Average amount of food I spend for work (FW): $250.00 per month
The formula:
(A x C)+(A x U)+((((W/A)-1) x (2 x T)) x A)+(FW – ((FH/H)) x w)) = The cost of work
For me that comes out to $158.00 a month
I use public transportation to go to work and try to spend as little as possible on the road so I bring most of my food.
How much do you spend to work? If you have crash pad, simply add your crashpad rent.
Here is the breakdown.
Average days at home (H): 16.8 per month
Average days at work (W): 13.2 per month
Average time I get activated (A): 6 times a month
Round trip cost to go to work (C): $16.50
Amount I tip van driver (T): $1.00 per ride
Average uniform upkeep (U): $5.00 per trip
Average amount I spend on food at home (FH): $300.00 per month
Average amount of food I spend for work (FW): $250.00 per month
The formula:
(A x C)+(A x U)+((((W/A)-1) x (2 x T)) x A)+(FW – ((FH/H)) x w)) = The cost of work
For me that comes out to $158.00 a month
I use public transportation to go to work and try to spend as little as possible on the road so I bring most of my food.
How much do you spend to work? If you have crash pad, simply add your crashpad rent.
12-18-2012, 04:52 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: Lunar Lander Commander
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by Snarge
No, I just think my labor and it's worth should be owned by me. And a percentage of it not go to others who have not earned it. So the next question, did the CEO earn the percentage he took from my labor?
Or said differently, should I be able to, at a minimum, determine the terms in which my labor is used in exchange for value?
Even slaves have the choice to quit.
Or said differently, should I be able to, at a minimum, determine the terms in which my labor is used in exchange for value?
Even slaves have the choice to quit.
If you engauge in a voluntary exchange of your labour with your "CEO" your "CEO" can keep whatever he wants. That is because he has a higher risk value than you have, he is your boss. That is why he is the CEO and you are the employee. If you decide that is unfair and you are not getting paid enough than quit. Because you are not a slave means that you can do so and go find employment somewhere else.
Or take a risk and start your own business and be the CEO.
The limitation on how much or little you can pay your employees is dictated by competition in the labor workforce for wages. Employees drive prices up and bosses drive them down. In a free society with a limited government both are winners in their own ways dictated by their risk/reward ratio they CHOOSE to have.
12-18-2012, 05:43 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by Denver
No offense but you have made a grave intellectual error. Slaves DO NOT have the choice to quit. This is entirely what being a slave means.
That is why the term wage slave hits home. Like a slave, we are wage slaves in that we can quit working but the consequences are worse. Yet the status quo is still bad.
If you engauge in a voluntary exchange of your labour with your "CEO" your "CEO" can keep whatever he wants. That is because he has a higher risk value than you have, he is your boss. That is why he is the CEO and you are the employee. If you decide that is unfair and you are not getting paid enough than quit. Because you are not a slave means that you can do so and go find employment somewhere else.
Or take a risk and start your own business and be the CEO.
The limitation on how much or little you can pay your employees is dictated by competition in the labor workforce for wages. Employees drive prices up and bosses drive them down. In a free society with a limited government both are winners in their own ways dictated by their risk/reward ratio they CHOOSE to have.
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