GED = Good Enough for Delta
 

A significant union roadshow sales pitch item included in the Pinnacle concessionary bankruptcy TA is the Bridge Agreement. The associated “Streamlined Selection Process” (SSP) establishes the process for Pinnacle pilots to flow to Delta, for the most part (2/3) in seniority order.


Not included in the TA or Bridge Agreement documents presented to the Pinnacle pilots is a letter from Steve Dixon (Sr. VP Flight Operations) to Tom Wychor (Pinnacle MEC Chairman). The purpose of the letter is to confirm an agreement between the two whereby Pinnacle pilots are able to flow to Delta without meeting the published minimums, specifically waiving the college degree requirement. Wychor has complied with Dixon’s request to “not publicize or make public” the details of this "Vault Letter", as a majority of Pinnacle pilots have not seen it (or do not even know about it).


My question for the double breasted among you is this- Why would Delta lower the bar and hire Pinnacle (/Compass?) pilots who do not meet the published minimums when there are thousands of qualified applicants available?


(Training failures should not be a concern, as these SSP pilots have the opportunity to return to their previous position at Pinnacle should they wash out of Delta training.)

I can't comment for Pinnacle, but of the 300ish flow eligible Compass pilots my guess is fewer than 10 do not have a degree. In fact it was required to have a degree at Compass for most of the airline's brief history.

The SSP specifically states that the applicants must meet Delta's basic hiring requirements, which are as follows:

General Requirements
At least 23 years of age
Graduate of a four-year degree program from a college or university accredited by a U.S Department of Education recognized accrediting organization
Degrees obtained from a non-U.S. institution must be evaluated for equivalency to U.S. degrees by a member organization of the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES)
Current passport or other travel documents enabling the bearer to freely exit and re-enter the U.S. (multiple reentry status) and be legally eligible to work in the U.S. (possess proper working documents)
FAA Requirements
FAA commercial fixed-wing pilot license with an instrument rating
Current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
Meets all minimum FAA ATP licensing requirements
Flight Time Requirements
Minimum of 1,500 hours of total documented flight time
Minimum of 1,000 hours of fixed wing turboprop or turbofan time
When evaluating the flight time of applicants meeting the basic qualifications, consideration will be given to, among other things, quality, quantity, recency, and verifiability of training; complexity of aircraft flown; types of flight operations; and hours flown as PIC in turbine powered aircraft. Applicants invited to interview must provide appropriate documentation of all flight hours.
Other Requirements
FCC Radiotelephone Operator's Permit (RP)
DOT required pre-employment drug test and a medical exam administered by Delta
TSA required fingerprint based Criminal History Records Check and a Delta background check
Applicants invited to interview must provide appropriate documentation of all flight hours and college transcripts

The waiver is not in the SSP. It is in the "vault letter". You have to go to a road show in order to be talked out of the opportunity to see it.

Delta controls Delta's requirements and can make them be anything they want. What if they amend those requirements you pasted to include "Comply with the requirements of a Connection Carrier flowthrough or preferential hiring program, or the following:"

Can you post the vault letter?

Everyone knows that this whole agreement is being negotiated by the "dropped out of Middle School at the age of 36 to fly a Jetstream" North Mississippi Flying Club and they're the only ones' interest they have in mind.

Of course they're not going to negotiate themselves out of the deal.

These "Bridge Agreements" will serve as a way for crappy regionals to get more applicants and retain them until they flow. Look at how American Eagle has had hundreds of guys stick around for well over a decade, all in the hope of an eventual flow to AA.

The Bridge agreement specifically states that all applicants must meet Delta's published hiring requirements.

If this is real, it is beyond wrong.

DL has no intention of hiring you, but they desperately need your vote;)

Nominee - POST OF THE DAY.

So sad, but true.

Without seeing the actual letter, I'd be extremely hard pressed to believe this. If it was real it'd be called MOU blah blah blah or LOA blah blah blah... not something as cool and dastardly sounding as "THE VAULT LETTER"

Just curious about Delta's medical examination they give you? Is it pretty a whole first class medical screening?

First class plus EKG, blood drawn by a lady that has no idea how to find a vein, and a hearing test.

And she touched my thingies:)

I had suppressed that memory I guess. :)


Might I suggest to the DL guys to contact your reps on this. Not only has 9E gone around DALPA and negotiated with DL mainline directly (major issue, but the national lawyers are turning a blind eye to it), but now they are apparently going to get lowered qualification requirements.

Not true. There are two pilots I know who flowed that did not have degrees. 1 is still at Delta and a very good pilot as he was my sim partner at Compass. I say it without reservation that he is very good at his profession. The second was the notorious individual who was given many chances to be successful but never seized the opportunity.

Quit worrying about 10 pilots who don't have a college degree. YOU need to worry about these alliances that just got signed with the European airlines. That's what will eventually take YOUR blessed Delta job away.

Not really. We have protections against those in our contract.

He said fewer than 10. You cite 2. How is his statement false? I think he is accurate. And about 9 of the 10 are ex ata/independence air guys with 10-20k hours.

How do you think the interviews will go for those who don't have college degrees?

He said it was a requirement for most if the airlines brief history. I was hired at the very beginning at compass and I can tell you that a college degree was NOT required from class 2 on. The ATA guys as well as a few others from the beginning did not have college degrees.

Is it a big deal? Personally It all depends on the individual I have flown with guys that did not have the degrees and they were good sticks. The issue at hand is that Delta requires it and a few we're able to flow without it... Just the facts!

The real issue is another airline MEC going behind the backs of Delta's MEC to negotiate directly with the company. This is a serious issue and for ALPA to allow this is just another example of how out of touch ALPA and their lawyers are.

Hopefully not well, but we shouldn't be having to have this conversation.

I think the four year degree has been required since sometime in 2009, so for the first 2 years maybe it wasn't required. But for "most" of the airlines history now, one has been required. And of the ATA guys, I'd bet more than half of the 20 or so ATA pilots have one. I can think of a couple Illinois grads as well as Purdue gradsand one retired AF pilot. They do issue degrees in places other than Grand Forks! ;)

Not to create a $hit storm here, but why is that you wish such ill of those and perhaps your fellow airmen and colleageus, who meet the qualficatons of both regulations and this secret "Skull and Crossbones" vaulted letter?

Because they are sidestepping the requirements all other applicants need to have...and on top of that most have been passed over by other carriers a number of times for a reason.

Perhaps they won't pass the interview- but the fact that they are getting an interview when they wouldn't qualify otherwise is not good. This whole deal stinks from many different angles.

Fair enough... at the end of the day a college degree a pilot does not make.

It's what they have in their hearts and soul, is what makes the airman.

It's how they've acquired their flying experience is an important asset they will bring to any company be it DAL, UAL, or AA, as well as the cockpit and fellow colleagues.

Its their legacy they will impart to new first officers too.

IMHO, with some 35+ years experience with both US and foreign carriers, a 4 year degree a senior aircraft commander does not make. Its merely a tick in the company's options of requirements box.

Safe flight... capt

It doesn't, but that is what DL requires, and I believe a college education helps to create a more well rounded individual. DL obviously holds that to be true as well. But, the point is this is sidestepping what is required to be hired by DL.

Respectfully, I've flown with a number of those that waiving this will empower... the legacy they imparted on myself by high number of these individuals is exactly how not to be an aircraft commander.

Like I said, hopefully the interview will do it's job and weed them out appropriately.

From what people have posted above, Compass had some flowthroughs go to Delta without a college degree? So it sounds like 9E may get a similar deal. I disagree with it, IMO, a pilot should be qualified by at least meeting the published minimums.

Once Pinnacle furloughs most of the company, there won't be many to flow? Or does it include furloughees? How many of the senior Pinnacle Captains that will be left will be willing to move on?

The CPZ deal doesn't bother me as much as that was a deal negotiated pre-merger and they had a NW overseen interview process.

I was fine with the 9E deal up until this point, but now there's a side letter to the side letter. Very few good things can come from this other than some of the worst pilots you've ever seen getting an undue and streamlined chance at a job far above where they should have peaked.

give it a rest copilot....if delta wants to hire a damn fine pilot....it is their choice..they own the place....i am a capt at alaska and dont even have ged.....the worst pilots I have flown with are the und wannabees....the best are just pilots....give it a rest punk.....

Thank you for furthering my point.

It looks like you also don't have a shift key or an apostrophe key.

Pass the popcorn, please......

Coffee through nose burns:D

College??? I’m all for it. One can’t be to educated.


Correct me if I’m wrong. During airline expansions during the ‘80s many airlines dropped the college requirement. Many individuals were hired without the degree during this period. I’m sure many of them have gotten their command too without a four year degree. I know of two colleagues with with the majors that don’t have maybe more than 1 month of college let alone any degrees either. Although one was a bartender at local saloon. I guess you can say he had a degree in mixicology. I think that qualifies as a degree. The performed as if he were a chemical engineer with great precision as he prepared mixed drinks with formulae of complicated and dangerous ingredients to produce such concoctions to meet society’s need.


Should they, along with their non college peers, be treated as pariahs?


Why I’m sure if the US Government thought it important enough, then Title 14 Part 61 would be amended to require a college degree to act as pilot in command of an aircraft requiring an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate.


Perhaps those who want make the club restricted, can start a petition. I personally won’t sign it. But it’s always an option for those who feel that strongly about the college issue, and vehemently want to keep, you know, those people from joining the club.


Now where did I put my cognac?

Quoted for awesomeness.

80,

I've tried to be a fly on the wall on this whole discussion, but I feel like I have to chime in here. I agree with you on the principle the Delta pilots were not involved with the formulation of this tentative agreement seeing as it directly involves both pilot groups.

That being said, as someone who has worked at both Colgan and Delta, I think you may be being somewhat harsh with your characterizion of the 9E pilot group. As far as I understand, even with a flow through agreement in place, pinnacle pilots would still have to go through the formal interview process. If I am wrong in this someone please chime in.

Colgan had some dam good pilots, pilots who have gone above and beyond to get the job done safely when "the company" made that objective difficult at times. Just as Colgan/Pinnacle has had their black sheeps, so has Delta, neither group is immune to that 10% of guys who have put a little too much crazy in their Cheerios.

Personally, I have no idea how the 9E pilots should vote. These decisions are always much easier and simple as an outsider. Pilots are, and have always been, are own worst enemies. Pilot groups love nothing more than to damnify another group for the contractual hardships they have encountered, but make no mistakes, labor is 2% of the issue and corrupt, inept, dim-witted airline management is the remainder.

We would extremely fortunate and lucky to have some of the pilots I have flown with at Colgan here at Delta. Whatever happens best of luck to the 9e guys.