Proof Mesa Needs Help!
11-24-2006 | 05:13 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: ERJ-145 FO
Management can and should be held responsible for every aspect of the poor conditions at mesa.
Unfortunately there is a grain of truth to what our boy saab says. I spent a few years being optomistic about mesa's next contract, then gradually came to the realization that a large percentage of the pilot group might not have the ballz to stand up for themselves when the time comes. I voted with my feet rather than wait and see.
DRASTIC events are going to be required to change anything at mesa: extended strike, loss of codeshare, furloughs. That will be the only way to purge mesa of JO and his merry band of @ss-clowns. Are you ready to do it?
Please prove me wrong in 2007 guys.
Unfortunately there is a grain of truth to what our boy saab says. I spent a few years being optomistic about mesa's next contract, then gradually came to the realization that a large percentage of the pilot group might not have the ballz to stand up for themselves when the time comes. I voted with my feet rather than wait and see.
DRASTIC events are going to be required to change anything at mesa: extended strike, loss of codeshare, furloughs. That will be the only way to purge mesa of JO and his merry band of @ss-clowns. Are you ready to do it?
Please prove me wrong in 2007 guys.
11-24-2006 | 05:35 AM
#22
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 0
From: A-320
Unfortunetly I bet a lot of guys feel like that so nothing is ever done. The problem arises when CA's are there for a while, they can't move on to the MAJORS for whatever reason and they are stuck with ****ty working conditions until CAL(insert your #1 airline here) calls them.
11-24-2006 | 06:30 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: NU Guy
Some intelligent posts here and some narrow minded preachy posts as well.
#1 For starters the more bad press regional airlines get the better. If a company cannot fill new hire classes everybody wins, when it comes to negotiation time. (At least in theory)
#2 Some say joe mesa pilot should quit because conditions suck there. Do you really think a guy making 80K, w/ good seniority, bills to pay and a family to feed, is going to quit because he has to fly these sh!t shifts only 4 times a month???????? I suppose the answer is for that pilot to quit and go to SKW and make 18K his first year and by year 5 still make less than he is at Mesa rates in the 700 or 900. (hold your horses sky pilots simply making a point here)
#3 To my knowledge these crap CDO shifts are a recent creation by the geniuses in scheduling and only occur out of the PHX domicile. (also it's my understanding colgan has similar practices)
#4 Let's not forget a major reason why mesas contract sucks is because of Freedom A list 4-5 years ago. (look at what SKY mgmt is doing to ASA right now)
#5 Most guys at mesa do vote with their feet and quit. That's why upgrades are so quick.
Conclusion rather than complain about pilots vs pilots lets.................
A. Fix the longevity scales. (Then pilots in general could quit at will)
B. Get more press on this article both at the national level and PHX Arizona region.
Hope this isn't to preachy just my two cents
#1 For starters the more bad press regional airlines get the better. If a company cannot fill new hire classes everybody wins, when it comes to negotiation time. (At least in theory)
#2 Some say joe mesa pilot should quit because conditions suck there. Do you really think a guy making 80K, w/ good seniority, bills to pay and a family to feed, is going to quit because he has to fly these sh!t shifts only 4 times a month???????? I suppose the answer is for that pilot to quit and go to SKW and make 18K his first year and by year 5 still make less than he is at Mesa rates in the 700 or 900. (hold your horses sky pilots simply making a point here)
#3 To my knowledge these crap CDO shifts are a recent creation by the geniuses in scheduling and only occur out of the PHX domicile. (also it's my understanding colgan has similar practices)
#4 Let's not forget a major reason why mesas contract sucks is because of Freedom A list 4-5 years ago. (look at what SKY mgmt is doing to ASA right now)
#5 Most guys at mesa do vote with their feet and quit. That's why upgrades are so quick.
Conclusion rather than complain about pilots vs pilots lets.................
A. Fix the longevity scales. (Then pilots in general could quit at will)
B. Get more press on this article both at the national level and PHX Arizona region.
Hope this isn't to preachy just my two cents
11-24-2006 | 12:10 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
From: Soon to be Ex Dash-Trash
Mesa schedules to the max allowable by the FAR's...unfortunately no common sense is specified in the FAR's. Mesa standups do not always allow for sleep during the day because they do not always keep you on the same cycle...
You need 8 hours of rest, right? OK, so get up at 0600, fly a couple legs in the morning, get to LAS around noon. Now take an 8-9 hour break, go back to the airport and fly an all-nighter. Did you get your legal "rest"? Yup. Did you really sleep much during the afternoon? Probably not, because you started that day on the front, not the back of the clock. Also, the hotel hosts wedding receptions outside your room.
Night shift flying is largely impractical at the regional airlines. Most (but not all) industries that use a night shift staff it with folks who prefer that shift or at least stay on it for an extended period of time so they get acclimated.
Very few pilots prefer living their life on the backside, so they fly their shifts, and then immediately return to the front-side. When they go back to work, they are out of sync again... Most pilots view night flying as a temporary hardship that will be remedied by seniority, so they gut it out but never really adapt. This is a safety problem, as well as a QOL issue.
There is also a big difference between one long leg and 4-5 short ones. From personal experience, a long leg is better. You are alert when you show up, you get the bird airborne and then the fatigue hits you enroute. That's OK, you can be less alert enroute as long as you can wake up for 20-30 minutes to do the approach, landing, and taxi. Going up and down all night is brutal...
You need 8 hours of rest, right? OK, so get up at 0600, fly a couple legs in the morning, get to LAS around noon. Now take an 8-9 hour break, go back to the airport and fly an all-nighter. Did you get your legal "rest"? Yup. Did you really sleep much during the afternoon? Probably not, because you started that day on the front, not the back of the clock. Also, the hotel hosts wedding receptions outside your room.
Night shift flying is largely impractical at the regional airlines. Most (but not all) industries that use a night shift staff it with folks who prefer that shift or at least stay on it for an extended period of time so they get acclimated.
Very few pilots prefer living their life on the backside, so they fly their shifts, and then immediately return to the front-side. When they go back to work, they are out of sync again... Most pilots view night flying as a temporary hardship that will be remedied by seniority, so they gut it out but never really adapt. This is a safety problem, as well as a QOL issue.
There is also a big difference between one long leg and 4-5 short ones. From personal experience, a long leg is better. You are alert when you show up, you get the bird airborne and then the fatigue hits you enroute. That's OK, you can be less alert enroute as long as you can wake up for 20-30 minutes to do the approach, landing, and taxi. Going up and down all night is brutal...
11-24-2006 | 11:07 PM
#25
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
From: FO dhc-6
WTF this video was my idea, i contacted dateline about RJ pilots and told them the same thing and they gave me a generic bullcrap email saying thank you for your interest in the show.
anyone who has anything to say but Kudos to this report needs to smarten up.
this is the video that could finally start the chain reaction this industry has desperately needed,
send the link to everyone you know and tell them to call the FAA and say "im not flying on codeshare airlines when i know half the kids are fatigued!!!!!!!!!!"
on another note, why aint the video working anymore?
anyone who has anything to say but Kudos to this report needs to smarten up.
this is the video that could finally start the chain reaction this industry has desperately needed,
send the link to everyone you know and tell them to call the FAA and say "im not flying on codeshare airlines when i know half the kids are fatigued!!!!!!!!!!"
on another note, why aint the video working anymore?
Last edited by hatetobreakit2u; 11-24-2006 at 11:17 PM.
11-25-2006 | 04:34 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: NU Guy
WTF this video was my idea, i contacted dateline about RJ pilots and told them the same thing and they gave me a generic bullcrap email saying thank you for your interest in the show.
anyone who has anything to say but Kudos to this report needs to smarten up.
this is the video that could finally start the chain reaction this industry has desperately needed,
send the link to everyone you know and tell them to call the FAA and say "im not flying on codeshare airlines when i know half the kids are fatigued!!!!!!!!!!"
on another note, why aint the video working anymore?
anyone who has anything to say but Kudos to this report needs to smarten up.
this is the video that could finally start the chain reaction this industry has desperately needed,
send the link to everyone you know and tell them to call the FAA and say "im not flying on codeshare airlines when i know half the kids are fatigued!!!!!!!!!!"
on another note, why aint the video working anymore?
11-25-2006 | 08:01 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,105
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
As far as strinking goes, that won't happen until we get a government that cares about safety and quality of life for people. A couple of million stranded passengers does not make for a popular president.
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