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- - Pinnacle (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/74235-pinnacle.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1397174)

Those Saabs and Qs became unprofitable after the JCBA was signed. That flying was barely sustainable at the old payrates let alone Q rates that caught up to new CRJ-200 rates in 2015.

The point you are leaving out is the reason it was unprofitable after the JCBA was signed, was the contract they had on the Q400s with the mainline partner. The JCBA had nothing to do with it, **** poor management was. Even under the pre-JCBA rates the flying was NOT sustainable.

BTW, the same thing can be said for the PCL ATL -900 flying for Delta. Let us not forget that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1397174)

Those Saabs and Qs became unprofitable after the JCBA was signed. That flying was barely sustainable at the old payrates let alone Q rates that caught up to new CRJ-200 rates in 2015. As for Delta, you will recall when 9E Corp closed up BOS US Airways flying to better staff the Qs and Continental Express flying. Why would Delta pay for that? They are not going to pay to staff their competition.

Delta withheld the payment they owed that would have covered the training expenses associated with the XJ DL turboprop wind down. Thus forcing Pinnacle into bankruptcy. They didn't pay for it, that's the point. :confused: They realized what they were paying in terms of rates was subsidizing the other feed and took control.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make anyways, PT signed the contracts with United, not the pilots. And the Q rates matching a jet were a good thing for pilots. Would you rather the Q rate have been less? Keep casting your stones of doubt and hate, it truly is entertaining.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 1397175)

Fair enough. I feel like some part of it I can't get over because 3 idiots ruined everything and I feel like that part of my life was a waste of time all the way to 5th year pay. I'll get over it at some point.

yeah, three pinnacle idiots.

Shy hates Pinnacle more than I hated Colgan............... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyxbomb (Post 1397100)

You're bonkers if you think a national seniority list would solve anything! I don't even know where to begin.

And it's not the just regional pilots that are cuthroat. Majors are just as bad. Except they complain with a little more tact especially on public forums and probably make less spelling/ grammatical errors.

I think you meant fewer errors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs (Post 1397242)

Shy hates Pinnacle more than I hated Colgan............... :)

But u hated management not the pilots! Plus u know u miss the Saab!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyJSH (Post 1397270)

I think you meant fewer errors.

That's why I'm a regional pilot :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs (Post 1397242)

Shy hates Pinnacle more than I hated Colgan............... :)

You just had SJS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs (Post 1397242)

Shy hates Pinnacle more than I hated Colgan............... :)

You should have stayed at Colgan. You would be a senior CRJ 900 Captain. Anyone in your way, just flash the career expectation business card and they'll clear out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitestar (Post 1397142)

Yup. In my scenario on my entire previous post (not only what you quoted) I address the POSSIBLE outcome in case Delta wasnt bluffing.

It really doesn't matter if you and I think they where bluffing. The moment the company, and more surprisingly, the UNION guarantees a wind down as a possible outcome if we don't pass that pos contract, it is every pilot's responsibility to include that to their equation and must give it some weight in their decision making process. Now, probably you and me would give it very little weight, since we may both think they are bluffing, and we would vote accordingly. Other pilots may give it more weight based on their own perspective and opinion of the situation, and vote accordingly also.

The truth is, no one can really tell what would've happened if the contract would've been rejected. As much as we may think they were bluffing, we will never know. The other regional pilot groups certainly didnt know for a fact what was going to happen to 9E if the new agreement was rejected. Hell, if they would've known for a fact that 9E was never going to shut down I bet every one of them would offered their full year salary and their first born to 9E in order to vote no...

Any of you guys happen to catch Richard Anderson's excitement in the Q1 2013 Investor's call about Pinnacle?

We old timers have heard it before ... from Fred Reid and Leo Mullin about Comair, 14 years ago and candidly, Comair had a hell of a run until they mistakenly thought they were real airline pilots and struck without any brand or scope. They finally achieved some measure of scope, but when it expired they died as a result of longevity costs and gross mismanagement by Delta. My favorite comment by a reporter was "Comair was a multi Billion dollar company, then Delta bought them."

Richard Anderson (and perhaps more importantly Ed Bastian & Mike Campbell) would have reason to be emboldened by the National Mediation Board determination that GoJets was not a single transportation system simply because they operated different airplanes to get around a scope clause. For according to some rumors that is exactly how Delta intends to operate Pinnacle, just as GoJets is to Trans States.

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf

All in, it was a better deal for GoJets than Trans States, as management picked "the best deal."

ALPA and Delta pilots were complete morons to allow multiple pilot groups to sit down and do competing deals with one management team.

Back in the salad days of Comair and ASA I always thought "man this is ugly, I am surprised Delta pilots do not want to resolve this with a single list." Once again, I have the same thought.

However, international problems and stories about RJ's being "last decade's problem" are used to distract the membership from whatever effect a group of pilots operating airplanes better than the mainline narrow body fleet* working for less pay might have on mainline negotiations.

So, what does mainline trade in 2015?