AWAC vs. TSA
 

If one had a choice (and I have my stuff in at both) which one would you choose?

What I know:

TSA: Good short term growth potential with new aircraft coming. Possible quick upgrade if you have the time (I've got 3200 total, 850 multi).

AWAC: Good contract, rigs, pay rates. Seems a bit more stable. CPA expires 2015 but it seems guys trust their management to figure something out.

All thoughts are appreciated.

AWAC vs. TSA
 

It's a regional, go to the one with first class available.

Where do you live or want to live?

I'm glad you said "possible" quick upgrade for TSA. I wouldn't bank on that, though I guess it COULD happen. When I was there, everyone was saying it was a for sure a 2 years at most to upgrade. I rode the bottom of the list for a year, sat reserve the whole time, got furloughed, and shortly thereafter resigned. That furlough was one of the best things that could have happened (unbeknownst at the time). Excellent guys and gals to work with though. Can't say the same about mgmt.

AWAC vs. TSA
 

Well at the very least it should be a quick ride up the FO list. Emphasis on "should."

As far as domicile, IAD or DCA would be awesome hence my interest in those two carriers.

Where are you now?

Cost of living is very high here. You have family in the area?

Not working for Hulas.

I've got extended family in central VA but not DC. I've been poking around on CL to get a good idea of rentals in the area. Pretty sure I can swing 1st year pay there.

Both have all 50 seat fleets. Not a good position to be in today. Get on wherever you can, get your turbine/glass time, and be ready to bail asap. Keep the logbook and the resume updated.

I have a 3 bedroom in Crystal City. I am about 500 feet from DCA...i pay $4200/month....

Enjoy!

:)

Eh, poking around on Craigslist there's rental situations to be had that can be done on 1st year pay.

Oscar the grouch's trash can is available??

Room in 4 bedroom/1.5 bath Professional Boarding House
Condo room Top floor: ALL Utilities Cable Hi speed Internet included
Room For Share
Looking for Roommate in Alexandria
Rooms Available in Nice Townhome + Free Internet/TV

Are these examples of how I want to be living the rest of my life? No, but I can afford them on 1st year pay and still have a life and feed myself.

Don't let these people dog you about living in DC. Yeah, it's expensive, but it seems like it's where you want to be, so just ignore them.

Talking to people in the AWAC training dept., they were predicting hiring 100 this year. It has come to a point as we near the mid-year mark, I am sure the classes in the foreseeable future have been filled, so now you're looking at getting in at the trailing end which has the possibility of keeping you on reserve for a while. Just something to keep in mind.

That has occurred to me. Apparently TSA is growing by a third this year (not hard when you only have 22 airframes to start out with) so that at least should be a quick trip up the FO list.

For whatever reason I feel like shying away from the mega-regionals (SkyWest, XJT, RAH) just because that would be a LONG trip up the FO list, although maybe more stable. It's all a gamble.

That's not growth. They had twice as many aircraft 5 years ago.

How many times in the last 10 years has TSA hired for "growth" that never happened?

I'm based at IAD, but not employed by either of the regional airlines you listed. However, I was borned and raised in the DC Metro area and live near IAD. Is the cost of living higher than other areas in the U.S.? Yes. Can you make it on first year regional pay? I did it at two different regionals, so, yes. I get the feeling people from other areas are more sensitive to the higher cost of living here, as they have a basis for comparison. PM me if you have questions about specific areas.

I guess that depends on your timescale. If indeed they have more airframes at the end of the year that they had at the beginning, is that not growth in the short term? Over the course of the last five years, perhaps not, but I'm not looking to be hired 5 years ago.

Now, if you could tell me what there fleet size will be 5-8 years from now, well, then you'd be Kit Darby. Point being hopefully adding airframes over the short term is a good sign of things to come.

Appreciate that. I spent a number of years in Anchorage while working the ramp and putting out money for flight training so I've got a little experience in more expensive area. While ANC is probably more expensive than DC I've looked at what I could expect my first year pay to be and think I can swing it. That said, I'm not looking to be in the heart of Georgetown.

You asked the question on here, I gave the answer. Sure you're not looking to get hired 5 years ago but if you're going to think about going there you need to know that this is a tired song that that management group at TSA loves to sing in the interview. The song doesn't sound so pretty when you're 4 weeks into class, the growth falls through and you're scrambling to find a job because they just sent you home. It has happened before, and will happen again. If the contract isn't signed, it probably isn't going to be.

My advice, don't chase the fast upgrade. If it happens, great. If it doesn't, you just screwed yourself into spending the next 5 years broke.

This was my advice also. I try not to presume anything, but it really seems the OP wants to go to TSA. The only benefit I could even think of to going there were the great crews to work with. A lot of people have made the Trans Mistake, myself included. But I feel a warning should be given to those considering. At the end of the day, it's their life, their career, and their choice.

Gentlemen, I do appreciate the advice. I'm not necessarily married to the idea of TSA, but I am working hard on finding a gig with some decent QOL right out of the gate. Currently TSA is putting FOs into IAD right out of training and very shortly onto a line. Sounds like some open time to be had as well if one was willing. Apparently the contract for the new aircraft has been signed so those 6 renewed airframes plus 7 new ones are finalized. If there's something I'm missing here please tell me.

Does airline management tend to oversell their company to prospective new hires? Absolutely, not saying TSA isn't. But the facts as I see them seem to suggest some stability for an FO over the next couple of years. Bottom line I'm looking for some place to be at the next 5 years or so and see what shakes loose beyond that. I'm not looking to retire from the place.

Neither am I focused on TSA exclusively. AWAC, CommutAir, XJT, SkyWest, etc, all have my applications in hand. We'll see what shakes loose.

How long is the TSA contract for? (The seven additional jets)

Unfortunately, not very long. Something to consider as well.

But who knows what will happen when/if the Mitsubishi jets arrive....

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's a Trans States Holding purchase which means it could go to any one of three certificates. Since this is the same outfit that brought us the GoJets whipsaw I don't have much hope of something positive.

Besides, flying mainline size aircraft at regional rates is something I'd rather avoid.

When is the EIS on that thing anyway?

Edit: looks like 2015-2016 timeframe, which probably translates to 2017-2018.

TSA contract says they get the first 10 Mitsubishi jets. Not saying I don't want to fly mainline, I'm just the messenger. Of course who knows what will happen or if any of us will still be worried about it in 2 years...

I take it you're at TSA now? Any thoughts to the longevity of the company or its flying?

IMO, the difference is that TSA is a privately owned business vs. these other airlines. If the business fails, the owner takes a personal hit/loss whereas these other CEO's just take their farewell bonus and move on. Bad as it's been, TSA has withstood the test of time and they continue to be profitable even if it has sometimes been at the expense of their employees. Who knows about longevity but as I said, it's not as easy for a privately held business to just shut down like they did Comair. The regional airline business has been cut throat and much as we hate it, TSA's penny pinching has kept us in jobs (most of us).

+1, they know how to run in that black ink.

This place isn't all that bad. Perceptions can change over time. And no I'm not saying that this place is the best regional of all time but things have gotten much better over several years. The new contract gives us average or slightly above average pay rates. And cancellation pay on a leg by leg basis is better than most. Is the contract perfect? Absolutely not. Management has also been much better. There is FAR less animosity between management and the pilot group as there has been in the past. The new planes and other leases on older planes have been extended past the date of anticipated arrival of the MRJ - 2015-2016 time frame. There's an agreement between TSA and TSH that stipulates that the first 10 MRJ's are coming to TSA. 50 orders and options for 50 more. Like others have already stated, predicting future upgrade time is a complete shot in the dark because the unexpected can and usually does happen in this industry. Right now upgrade times in the immediate future would be around a year or slightly less. But 3-6 months from now that could all change. A lot depends on attrition to the majors just like every regional. Overall TSA is much better than it was years ago. It's not the best but it is far from the worst.

I appreciate the info. I definitely understand how it can all change in a heartbeat. Realistically, a large part of the decision rests on who calls first.

Out of curiousity, what's the average days off for line holders?

It's great to hear its getting good there. There is no more deserving group of pilots. Miss you guys.

AWAC is also privately owned.

I heard TSH will start up another airline to operate their MRJs

You mean trans-go-pass-jets?

It was a general statement.

Mesa has an IAD base that's junior, 60% day trips, all 700 flying and unlike TSA you won't be eating Indian food and suffering a training department that's still trying to figure out how to train. Mesa is a much better place than it was a few years ago, the pilot group and mgmt actually try and work together to keep things going smoothly. Check it out, the crews at IAD are top notch and its good flying!

Or an ignorant one.