Hmm... Maybe this will give me some sweet seniority in the EMB left seat...

You only need to be cheaper than XJT. If you just hold the line and keep what you have, should be no problem.

Lakes doesn't fly jets and I don't think that DV actually wants to make money with Lakes.

Yes Nevets, You guys are so good you bought SkyWest.. Wait..

Sarcasm aside, I actually agree with, and appreciate most of your contributions on here.

They will pay us our 90 seat rates for it, and I am sure they will propose a pay freeze and throw reserves a bone (aggressive pick up or whatever). Other than that I don't think well be getting any raises next few year to stay "competitive" with Republic and Mesa etc etc..

Because Gojet was around for years before their CPA with UA...

TSA was afound for years. Gojets is just an alter-ego. You really didnt know that?

I'm going to apply to CAL Pac as an off the street Captain. Turbine PIC baby!!

The Sled

As a United pilot, it's sad to see these airplanes go to anyone at all.

However, its even worse to see them go to a non-union carrier.

Just sickening.

Yes, look at all that 1.95% ALPA is missing out on with these E175's going to SkyWest.

The union reps might have to eat out at Applebees now instead of Ruth Chris Steak House.

Just sickening.

I would think turning down the Q400/ERJ145 in favor of the E175 at Republic would have more to do with getting the base you want rather than needing to have auto throttles.

Your peers voted for it.

While the holding company was, it was still a start up certificate with zero experience.

CLE for FOs goes junior.

wouldn't that be nice.

Really!?!? Only 1 guy gets it? :( This is only an announcement for 40/100. Plus, they have options for 100. Anyone who doesn't think these will be used as management "carrots" to lure ALL SKYW, Inc pilots into accepting concessions is either ignorant, naive, or has zero memory. Wasn't ASA getting the first 900s, anyone? anyone? The email has already come out with management basically saying no growth at ASA or XJT unless concessions. I'm sorry, I mean "cost competitiveness". Plus, the threat of aircraft exiting the CPAs starting this fall. Deja vu all over again I guess.

That's right because you guys managed to get a whopping $2.00 an hour more for A/C over 50 seats... :rolleyes:

The email that came out to XJT was a plea for unity to get labor contracts done so the company can know its costs going forward to bid contracts. I can't speak for the other labor groups, but for XJT pilots, the contract is basically done except for PBS bidding system. Management hasnt been asking for concessions, they have been on the sidelines for months watching the MECs cat fight over Flightline vs SmartPref

I do feel that ALPA abuses spending for food and alcohol, but I also feel that it should be a perk for those that do volunteer. But you're right, Ruth Chris Steakhouse is a bit excessive. Additionally, I feel that many of the contract provisions that Skywest enjoys comes from ALPA negotiated contracts. I suspect that Skywest management will go for concessions at Skywest if ASA/XJT gives in to concessions

Splitting hairs a bit, but SkyWest pilots don't have any contract provisions. Their work rules, pay, and benefits exist only as long as management allows them to. The only leverage the pilots have is the threat of unionization if the cuts are too deep. Any "negotiations" with the student council are basically for show.

At eagle we've had the mec chairman walk in a liquor store and buy $100 worth of alcohol, go to a bar at night with buddies, other union members and their spouses and rack up almost $1,000 worth of alcohol and expense them as snack. Also there are multiple $1,500-2,000 dollar dinners. I am sorry but they don't deserve sh!t. They volunteered, and they are compensated. It's a volunteer job and my money shouldn't have to be spent on alcohol and extremely expensive dinners. A decent stake and a glass of whine is fine, but the abuse that is going on is unacceptable.

WRONG Management does not fear a union here i.e. expressjet. What they fear is not being able pay shareholders. Mangament tries to ride a fine line between paying people just enough to keep them happy so they'll be productive and produce profit. They do not want to cut so deep that it causes employees to become destructive and unprofitable. Last time I checked the definition of negotiate didnt included the word union in it.

But it was set up in-house, by people who were currently running an airline, using many of the same assets (including pilots). I'm certainly no fan of gojets but from United's perspective they were not a very risky proposition as far as certification.

I tend to agree. The issue is not so much much the food and drink or even the venue, it's the fact that they broke the rules, tried to hide it, and now seem to be sweeping it under the rug instead of taking the appropriate action: resignation.

If they need nice dinners, change the rules to allow it once a quarter or once a year, whatever your group feels like ponying up for.

Probably true to a certain point, but for the most part regional compensation is so low compared to the general economy that regionals can't really treat people much worse or they'd just quit...except for those who have a lot of time vested. The only people who really benefit from regional unions are very high-seniority CA's in the six-figure range...I agree without union protection these guys would not be making that kind of money.

That would make sense.

Fact is that the contract scope was originally cut at 70 seats during the negotiations. Once DALAPA agreed to and voted in their large allotment of 76 seat(for the 717's) Puchela and the NMB agreed with UAL mgmt that this is the new line. UAL ALPA's choice was accept or no contract movement.

Blame, IMHO, goes to 1) DALPA and, mostly, ALPA National for not having a coordinated plan with UAL ALPA, et al, to keep scope under 70. and, 2) the RLA for allowing companies to be able to stall negotiations to infinity.

Got a good laugh out of that one.

Again it was an arbitrated award, we weren't able to come to terms. While we're at it, assuming you work for Skywest did you not fly the 200 for the same rate as the 700 when they were announced? Get back to us please we're all anxious. At least we get the opportunity to go to arbitration just like SAPA! Oh wait......

It is a lot more than just rates. Tell me you understand that, right? How much more in 401k matching funds do you get? How much more in B fund contributions do you get? How much more in vacation accrual do you get? How much more in sick accrual do you get? How much lower is your share of health care premiums? How much more in perdiem do you get? Etc etc.

Really, if you just keep what you already have, your pilot group will continue to be more "cost competitive" than LXJT's.

Don't be so naive. They are too smart to outright ask for concessions. They have been using code words like "cost competitive" to get the subtle message accords. BH himself said to me on a conference that there are things in the LXJT contract that are not cost competitive. Maybe it won't be a concession for the ASA people but I'm definitely not holding my breath for the LXJT side.

They do have the document from their last "negotiations" that says they will get whatever 401k matching, health benefits, and scope that XJT pilots negotiate in their contract.

No, but without an NMB recognized union, you don't have any leverage. Like you said, it only has to do with management compensating enough to keep you non-union. They fear that that would threaten the value to the shareholders. I guess SWA does very bad since ALL of their employees are unionized.

Why does everyone think that having a union is solely about having a contract?

Nevets save your drivel for your dog hes the only one thats listens to you. Why? Because he has no choice! You glow with ignorance when you compare SWA to OO in terms of a union. Leverage? Hows that levearge working for Pinnacle? Oh yeah it didnt they took it up the poop shoot with no say what so ever.

Trust me...having NMB recognition really doesn't mean squat.

Gotta hand it to you, that was pretty sweet to hear you ask those direct, straight forward, thought out questions of him. And it was comical to listen to him dance around it all. Not like we should expect anything more though.

"just because we don't always get it right doesn't mean we aren't trying........"

You guys voted for a contract to give these planes away now you're sad? BTW those non-union pilots make more money with better work rules than their union competitors. Really makes me sick...

I could see my kids using this very line. :D

Pinnacle voted for what they got. They volunteered.

Just because you have a union doesn't mean you can't also be stupid.


Do you actually believe this? That mainline will eventually vote to 'bring us onboard?' No way man. Show me one round of contract negotiations that has ended with a more seat-restrictive scope clause than when it started. As long as people are dumb enough to keep lining up to fly RJ's for CPA carriers, that's exactly what we'll get.

The race to the bottom is now OVER!!!!!!!!!! Expressjet and Republic are flying with no contractual raises. The dust has settled, the EMB-175's are gone..... Done end of game. No more *****ing on web-boards. The game is over for the next 10 years. Eat Ramen and hope you get an upgrade in the next 10 to 12 years. Have fun paying your Riddle loan off.

It worked better than it would have if they weren't union. Ignorance? How about your ignorance of the fact that the judge turned down the initial contract abrogation. Without a union, pinnacle pilots wouldn't even have had the right to have the judge rule in the company's 1113 motion, much less get a small victory in it.

But if personal attacks is all you got instead of stating your position, then go ahead with the ad hominim arguments.

Oh really? So I guess having the ability to make your case before the bk judge or before an arbitrator in major disputes or having a third party decide if your firing was justified doesnt mean anything? Without a union, the company just imposes what they want on the work group in bk. And without a union, there is no major dispute because the company doesn't have disputes with themselves. They just do whatever they need to do without your say. And as an at will employee, you either take it or quit.

And then then all of a sudden... the derailed comments about unions ceased,and were heard of no more on this thread.


So this deal with United appears to not require any parking of 50 seaters. SKW did mention that they will be open to giving some CRJ200s back when their leases are up..but it doesn't look like thats apart of the negotiated deal. I wonder where the rest of the 60 175s could end up.

The 50 seaters being parked are probably XJT's 145s.

We are just trying to keep up with the Jones'....err...the Delta's. Between UAL, DAL, AMR, ALK, etc. Skywest will have barbie jet jobs for years to come! That 5 year upgrade will shrink in no time and you'll be well on your way to $100/hr (at 15 yrs).

Sled

You know, what I take from this, even after filtering through the sarcasm, is that it's ok that you guys help maintain the culture that keeps some of us on a B-scale forever because Delta did it first.

That seems like a great attitude.

The loser in all this being... the airline pilot profession.