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Eagle state of the airline update
This was taken from our forum today. I dont know if it true, just passing it along.
State of the Airline update (post merger) Well, good and not so good news. Usually I start with bad news, but I'll do the good, since people might not read all this. I wasn't at the meeting... but this is a summery of what was said. Second hand info I know... but my company source was there... and is spot on 99.8%. This isn't his theory.... just cliff notes of what was discussed. First, Winkley WILL NOT METER FLOW THROUGH OR 824 transfers to AA. There are two possible restrictions to this, which will be stated later. Rumors of 75-100 flow throughs per month once AA training steps up. AA (Winkley) suggested all new people will come from Eagle if possible (more on this later). The positive from this, people moving on, and HUGE amounts of upgrades. Our training department will be ready (time will tell). So, our hiring needs to be huge. upgrade times will drop significantly. One can only guess what a junior captain will be in 18-24 months from now. Perhaps very junior. Now, the not so good, but not so bad news. Winkley and Garton are still trying to get more positive news, but for now this is it. No word, or suggestion of new planes. For now, management wants as many as possible to flow. Thats about the only good news. We NEED new hires, hundreds of them. Why??? Winkley will not restict the flow or 824, as long as we have new people coming in to replace us. So possible new hires... get here... things will move fast it sounds. So, upgrade times should drop (new people read that again). The only other option to not restrict the flow/824 is to shrink the airline. This may or may not happen... More on that next. The Bad News: USAir Management sucks. Most of the AMR management will be gone. Garton conceeds he will most likely lose his job as well. Parker wants ONE "president" to oversee all wholy owned regional airlines. USAir Management will pretty much destroy the AA product. US management is well into the restructuring of AA, and they have told AMR managers, the whole picture is to costly. US wants a LCC. Thats Low Cost Carrier. Parker has already stated the new 777 will be reconfigured. They are "too nice" and will cost too much to operate. He has stated our fuel tracking/fuel scoring will most likely be implented and monitored. He couldn't beileve we have two FMS/FMC's in our planes... again too much cost. The general idea I got, was we (AA/EGL) will be trimmed to nothing. So sadly, instead of making AA a premier product, he wants to trim it to garbage. So to sum up, we need to HIRE TONS or shrink, and we will get unrestricted flow... even maybe a 100 a month if our staffing or shrinkage supports it. And the "new" American, (LCC/penny pincher) maybe a garbage airline... I sure hope not... but look at the current US... pretty crappy airline. Well, that rumor section 300+ CA upgrades maybe true.... |
I can tell you that our current upgrade with this last huge CA award has dropped down to about 6.5 years for the junior guy by the time they reach upgrade training this summer.. And dropping. I am in that group that was CA displaced over a year ago and now just going to training again so I keep a pretty close eye on it. Not too long ago we were at 9-10yrs.
If this does come true, it would push it down significantly more.. |
I doubt you will lose your chiefs. US Airways has 2 regional airlines. Both have their own Presidents and Vice Pres. Parker doesn't have the time or energy to manage the wholly owned regionals. My prediction is that there will be a merger of Airways and American. Then there will be three regionals under the umbrella.
But..... From what i hear the Mainline Airways pilots have a combined seniority list that includes PSA/Piedmont pilots. I assume to bring the number of mainline pilots at airways look higher. There has always been rumors of a flow thru from the wholly ownes to mainline but nothing ever became of it. Parker can run a better airline that Horton. And don't flatter yourself too much. American does have some nice airplanes but you are plagued with some stale old crusty f/a's and gate agents like airways. Personally after reading the non-rev travel for express carriers, Airways system is much better. |
Originally Posted by seafeye
(Post 1420022)
Personally after reading the non-rev travel for express carriers, Airways system is much better.
People can't seem to look past the "minor" costs with the 1st 5 years of employment. Even though the system and chances you will actually get a seat are far better. Would you rather have a low priority and get stranded and have to buy a hotel, or pay $8 and get a seat home because you are #1 on the list? I can virtually guarantee I will be number 1 on the standby list on some international route in a foreign country with our system. Even with hoards of other mainline travellers and senior employees because I know how to use the system to my advantage. Times like this are when you really need a system like ours so you don't get stranded. I am not saying I agree with having to pay a small fee the first 5 years but it is WELL worth it for the priority we can get. It makes all the difference between getting a seat and not getting one. Besides the jump seat is free, and OAL jumping is still free as well. The 5yr thing goes by quick.. Then it's free too. Pretty sure the majority of the AMR employees would fight to the death to keep our system over what most carriers use. ~lifetime commuter/international commuter |
Whatever plan Parker has for AA, it has to be something the BOD is convinced is the best plan. I find it difficult to believe their backing a plan to turn AA into a global Valujet/Peoples Express. Maximizing efficiency and modifying the product to highlight value perhaps, but draconian representations above I don't buy.
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"We all fly for regionals, but we are fighting about who's mainline is better!!!!"
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Que RJPilot in
3... 2... 1... |
I think they will try to flow as many as staffing allows. It seems like the divestiture plan has been sidelined, again. The problem we will have is staffing this airline once the flows really start to leave in addition to those leaving for other carriers. I could see upgrades dropping to 4 years in by this time next years as long as we have a continuous flow of new hires to replace those who will upgrade.
IMHO, I believe this is the main reason AMR decided to diversify its feed. Can you imagine not being able to staff any of your feed because of staffing levels? We may be forced to shrink if we don't get enough new hires in the coming months. I say: "come on over so I can upgrade!" :D |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1420035)
Whatever plan Parker has for AA, it has to be something the BOD is convinced is the best plan. I find it difficult to believe their backing a plan to turn AA into a global Valujet/Peoples Express. Maximizing efficiency and modifying the product to highlight value perhaps, but draconian representations above I don't buy.
Despite this I have always felt he is better than anything currently at AMR...including Horton. Especially Arpey. However, it seems he may be going the way of the Ryan Air CEO and jumping off the deep end. If that is the case I would expect anything from him. In regards to RJ Pilot...yeah I'm suprised he hasn't rolled his dark clouds into this thread yet. With all the pilots Eagle are trying to hire they would love to find out who this person is that keeps scaring away people on APC. Good thing I have morals or I would have turned his name in a long time ago. Too bad other people here don't share my ethics. Yes...there is a group of us who know who he is. |
Originally Posted by embraer
(Post 1420058)
Just remember that Parker is cut-throat and plays dirty. He declared bankruptcy TWICE at US Air so he could throw out the labor group contracts TWICE.
Despite this I have always felt he is better than anything currently at AMR...including Horton. Especially Arpey. However, it seems he may be going the way of the Ryan Air CEO and jumping off the deep end. If that is the case I would expect anything from him. In regards to RJ Pilot...yeah I'm suprised he hasn't rolled his dark clouds into this thread yet. With all the pilots Eagle are trying to hire they would love to find out who this person is that keeps scaring away people on APC. Good thing I have morals or I would have turned his name in a long time ago. Too bad other people here don't share my ethics. Yes...there is a group of us who know who he is. |
You can only attract so many new hires with no guaranteed fleet plan and possibly more cuts on the horizon. Flowthroughs or not, why would one come here they're going to shrink Eagle down to say 100 planes and shove a pinnacle (endeavor, challenger, or whatever they call themselves now) type contract down our throats? I'm not trying to be pessimistic and I'm not trying to say Eagle will ultimately shrink to 100 planes. Just playing the "what if" card.
On the other hand, Eagle could be the place to go if they have 800+ guys flowing and we remain a fleet of 230 airplanes like the stand alone fleet plan called for. And DP can go eat a bowl of d!cks as far as I'm concerned. |
Hi RyanP, this is not really a reply more of a question to you or any eagle pilot wanting to chime in. If AE is having a hard time finding folks to fill classes, that's what I have heard, why are they still being very selective when it comes to hiring new guys? I have got quite a bit of 121 time, also time in the crj-700, no faa problems, clean driving record, etc, and still didn't even get a chance to interview,
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Originally Posted by New Guy 007
(Post 1420084)
Hi RyanP, this is not really a reply more of a question to you or any eagle pilot wanting to chime in. If AE is having a hard time finding folks to fill classes, that's what I have heard, why are they still being very selective when it comes to hiring new guys? I have got quite a bit of 121 time, also time in the crj-700, no faa problems, clean driving record, etc, and still didn't even get a chance to interview,
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No!! PM ME your name and contact info and i'll contact the HR dept. ;)
FWIW, I had heard we were filling classes. |
Originally Posted by New Guy 007
(Post 1420084)
Hi RyanP, this is not really a reply more of a question to you or any eagle pilot wanting to chime in. If AE is having a hard time finding folks to fill classes, that's what I have heard, why are they still being very selective when it comes to hiring new guys? I have got quite a bit of 121 time, also time in the crj-700, no faa problems, clean driving record, etc, and still didn't even get a chance to interview,
I know of 2 people PMing me who actually DID have interview invites in their spam folder and they didn't see it for a couple weeks until someone mentioned it. Another got the call after contacting HR. I had the same issue, I never check my spam folder either until someone mentioned it and I found an email from Virgin America that I missed for a while. PS.. to you bonus junkies.. If he already applied you won't get the referral bonus anyway. lol |
Originally Posted by embraer
(Post 1420058)
Just remember that Parker is cut-throat and plays dirty. He declared bankruptcy TWICE at US Air so he could throw out the labor group contracts TWICE.
As far as the FMC/FMS comments above. Um, not quite. Which puts much of the rest of this gossip into the, well, gossip category. |
Originally Posted by embraer
(Post 1420058)
Just remember that Parker is cut-throat and plays dirty. He declared bankruptcy TWICE at US Air so he could throw out the labor group contracts TWICE.
Despite this I have always felt he is better than anything currently at AMR...including Horton. . 2002: US Airways enters Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization on Aug. 11. 2004: The airline files for bankruptcy protection for the second time in as many years on Sept. 14. 2005 America West announces on May 19 plans to buy US Airways out of bankruptcy. US Airways was days away from being liquidated. America West CEO Doug Parker heads up the new airline, a post he still has today. 2006: Parker makes an unsolicited $8.5 billion bid for Delta Air Lines which was restructuring in bankruptcy court. The airline rebuts the offer, with its CEO calling US Airways ‘‘the worst of all potential merger partners.’’ 2009: On Jan. 15, flight 1549 hits a flock of geese and loses power in both engines shortly after taking off from New York’s LaGuardia Airport. Capt. Chesley B. ‘‘Sully’’ Sullenberger ditches the airplane in the Hudson River. All 155 passengers and crew survive. 2010: US Airways and United once again discuss a merger only to have United ultimately chose to merge with Continental. 2011: AMR Corp., the parent of American Airlines, files for bankruptcy protection on Nov. 29. US Airways hires advisers to study a possible combination. 2012: US Airways and American disclose on Aug. 31 that they have signed a non-disclosure agreements and started confidential merger talks. Feb. 13, 2013: The boards of American and US Airways approve a merger creating the world’s biggest airline. Doug Parker came after US filed for BK twice. |
Originally Posted by N927EV
(Post 1420092)
No!! PM ME your name and contact info and i'll contact the HR dept. ;)
FWIW, I had heard we were filling classes. |
Originally Posted by RyanP
(Post 1420012)
He couldn't beileve we have two FMS/FMC's in our planes... again too much cost. The general idea I got, was we (AA/EGL) will be trimmed to nothing.
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Originally Posted by New Guy 007
(Post 1420084)
Hi RyanP, this is not really a reply more of a question to you or any eagle pilot wanting to chime in. If AE is having a hard time finding folks to fill classes, that's what I have heard, why are they still being very selective when it comes to hiring new guys? I have got quite a bit of 121 time, also time in the crj-700, no faa problems, clean driving record, etc, and still didn't even get a chance to interview,
I got an interview within a week of applying. Right at the minimums with no internal recs. Make sure your airlineapps is up to date. |
Originally Posted by snippercr
(Post 1420038)
Que RJPilot in
3... 2... 1... Move along, nothing to see here..... |
The bottom line is Doug Parker runs crappy, no frills, deadbeat airlines. He has no interest in bettering the onboard experience of a customer. He and US Airways have always been a money-grubbing airline.
Ride on DL or United and ride on US Airways and tell me which is a better experience. The US Airways peddling of the Mastercard or the Delta WiFi/Snack/Onboard TV/Movies. |
there will be metering to aa for the 824 and any pilot after them regardless of what f/o winkley says. in order not to meter they would have to be overstaffed by 500 pilots to ensure the flying is covered`at eagle.
want to take one of the two fms/fmc's out of the airplane, great now we have one mel'd and fly normal navigation and refuse/unable to take short cuts or direct routing burn the fuel. fuel monitoring, suck it all you want, it is going to get burned one way or another. therevwill be no savings. fleet plan plan on 150, if they want more give it to skw, ejt or rah. as it is we are taking a couple of cities back from skw in lax because they cant carry the loads, and we are being forced to fly charter flights out of dfw to cover the ejt flying because they cant crew the flights and rah in chicago, well that is to start in august and is to be another amr cluster. as for the original posting for this thread, what ever was posted was propaganda, what if's and maybes. sounds like a teenager trying to justify there stupidity, just plain amr bull. question, if eagle is having difficulty hiring, which it is, explain to me why would not the other regionals not be in the same situation if not worse? the divesting of eagle flying will not be covered without extreme difficulty by other regionals. eventually the mainlines will have to up the payments to the regional so they can pay regional pilots more just have the flying covered. mainline always has the option to do the flying itself, but is not. pure f/o winkley, amr bull, the only positive in the original posting was winkley, garton and the rest of the stooges will be gone to the street. |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 1420308)
there will be metering to aa for the 824 and any pilot after them regardless of what f/o winkley says. in order not to meter they would have to be overstaffed by 500 pilots to ensure the flying is covered`at eagle.
want to take one of the two fms/fmc's out of the airplane, great now we have one mel'd and fly normal navigation and refuse/unable to take short cuts or direct routing burn the fuel. fuel monitoring, suck it all you want, it is going to get burned one way or another. therevwill be no savings. fleet plan plan on 150, if they want more give it to skw, ejt or rah. as it is we are taking a couple of cities back from skw in lax because they cant carry the loads, and we are being forced to fly charter flights out of dfw to cover the ejt flying because they cant crew the flights and rah in chicago, well that is to start in august and is to be another amr cluster. as for the original posting for this thread, what ever was posted was propaganda, what if's and maybes. sounds like a teenager trying to justify there stupidity, just plain amr bull. question, if eagle is having difficulty hiring, which it is, explain to me why would not the other regionals not be in the same situation if not worse? the divesting of eagle flying will not be covered without extreme difficulty by other regionals. eventually the mainlines will have to up the payments to the regional so they can pay regional pilots more just have the flying covered. mainline always has the option to do the flying itself, but is not. pure f/o winkley, amr bull, the only positive in the original posting was winkley, garton and the rest of the stooges will be gone to the street. As far as the single Fms. Well the other regionals do it, I have seen many CRJs running around with a single FMS in United colors. United and US Airways management are the cheapest, seems like American will follow. |
I really doubt that they will let the 824 flow that soon when we are canceling flights due to no captains. They have to meter, maybe.
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The regionals will have no trouble hiring. There are so many 50 seaters out there that will be retired, a bunch of them, and attrition can take care of staffing. The super senior guys aren't going anywhere, mid level guys will leave if they can. Eagle has this flowthrough but I am sure a lot of the lifers will stay there.
There will be no pilot shortage, well unless you want a job flying empty 50 seat erj/crjs to victorville and other boneyards. The other solution would be to allow captains to fly left or right seat which a lot of captains at all regionals would probably jump all over. In short there will be no pilot shortage anywhere. FOs are the main source of attrition right now not Captains. If Captains can fly as FOs that solves a lot of problems right there. |
The regionals will have no trouble hiring. There are so many 50 seaters out there that will be retired, a bunch of them, and attrition can take care of staffing. The super senior guys aren't going anywhere, mid level guys will leave if they can. Eagle has this flowthrough but I am sure a lot of the lifers will stay there. There will be no pilot shortage, well unless you want a job flying empty 50 seat erj/crjs to victorville and other boneyards. The other solution would be to allow captains to fly left or right seat which a lot of captains at all regionals would probably jump all over. In short there will be no pilot shortage anywhere. FOs are the main source of attrition right now not Captains. If Captains can fly as FOs that solves a lot of problems right there. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 1421384)
Eagle CAs used to be right seat qualified. Not any more...
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Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 1421384)
Eagle CAs used to be right seat qualified. Not any more...
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Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 1421416)
Exactly. I always said, the company should get all FOs upgraded, once they need captains use the FOs with a pay override for that flights covered.
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This was someone's notes from some "meeting." What is there to see here?
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Originally Posted by slammer1906
(Post 1421421)
This was someone's notes from some "meeting." What is there to see here?
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You know what I see here. You guys at eagle are nervous and anxious about your future. I feel your plight. But, why speculate so much like this? Chill out fellas! Have a gin and tonic. It's summer time.
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And for the ladies, it's slammer time...
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Next Flowthru class in August. Ahhhh that carrot keeps dangling.
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Originally Posted by DMEarc
(Post 1420292)
The bottom line is Doug Parker runs crappy, no frills, deadbeat airlines. He has no interest in bettering the onboard experience of a customer. He and US Airways have always been a money-grubbing airline.
Ride on DL or United and ride on US Airways and tell me which is a better experience. The US Airways peddling of the Mastercard or the Delta WiFi/Snack/Onboard TV/Movies. That being said if I was still working I wouldn't work for Uncle Dougie's house of pain for a quarter mil a year and positive space non-rev. I'd rather make 20k a year flying a Skyhawk over pipes. |
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1423133)
Next Flowthru class in August. Ahhhh that carrot keeps dangling.
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Originally Posted by V1 ROT8
(Post 1423342)
Latest rumor from that other forum is now there will be no more recall classes at AA until October :(
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you dont send your pilots to class when you are short of pilots for the peak season. this is a normal given. they cant hire of the street at aa without violating an arbitration ruling for the 824. so you cancel classes and just build up a pilot pool but there is not window open for hiring at aa as of yet.
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 1423464)
Does that surprises you? I really don't see those 824's leaving anytime soon if at all.
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