I am going to guess it would be the ERJ175... I bet they can come up with some agreement with Embraer to return 145's for 175's... but that also doesn't necessarily mean that Eagle will operate them. Republic has problems staffing its already scheduled Eagle flying so that would leave Skywest and Compass.

Uhhh wrong answer. While owned by Mother Delta Comair bid on flying for other carriers and Comair/Regional Elite permformed underwing services for other carriers. Presently DGS performs underwing for other carriers.

Ground handling and operating are two different animals.

While Comair did bid on other flying, it never materialized. However, I do not seen 9E operating for anyone other than Delta. They need to get their own house in order, and better their performance before they even begin to think of shifting their focus to operating for someone else.

The big issue with Pinnacle was due to the new contract and integration of Mesaba. Delta agreed to pay the costs of training pilots created by this integration. However Delta balked when they discovered this included training pilots to staff United flying. Further Trenary underbid both the United and original Pinnacle 900 flying. Both operations were marginal at best and were ditched in bankruptcy. The decision to get rid of the United flying was an economical decision (just like the Delta Pinnacle 900 flying) and had nothing to do with Delta's interest in keeping Pinnacle from flying for anybody else.

I think you will see Endeavor Air do anything that makes operational and economic sense and increases the value of the company to make it more attractive to investors when the time comes for Delta to sell it off.

Hijack now over.....

Yes, over and under wing services. Delta won't allow a wholly owned airline to fly as a regional for another legacy. Most nearly all wholly owned regionals fly only for their own legacy mothership and no one else. Eagle, PSA, Piedmont, Endeavor, etc

Who is gonna want to buy a regional when the model is broke and dying industry wide? Good licking getting new ATP rated pilots to show up for 23 grand a year. You'd be an idiot to buy a regional. It's no longer worth it. FFD profit contracts are all going away. The regional will have to deal with the bulk of all it's expenses.

Parker isn't buying planes for a non wholly own to fly. He's a pay to play CEO. AE is my guess. Get a bunch of 145s gone for 175s or 900s.

Doubt it's any other regional but a wholly owned based on Parkers history. Hell look at RAH. AA isn't buying 175s for them. Just my guess but AE is my guess.

Shy this same Delta management team allowed Comair (while it was wholly owned by Delta) to bid on RFPs for other airlines while they were owned by Delta. I don't know how to make it any plainer than that for you. Eagle at one time operated codeshares for Northwest on the west coast. If it makes money, they'll do it.

You can say the same thing for the entire industry but people still invest in it and buy companies. FFD makes the mainlines more money than revenue sharing. That is why the entire industry went FFD in the late 90s. Any industry analyst worth his salt will tell you there is going to be lot of consolidation of companies and certificates over the next five years.

What's not stated in this argument was United was renegotiating the Q400 contract to make it profitable. Delta's DIP financing demands, and they were demands stated they had to exit the United flying. Without that the contract would have been renegotiated and the would probably still be flying at Pinnacle.

Probably not because even though UAL was willing to negotiate a new price, the cost of running the Qs on a seperate certificate under the new contract created enormous training costs and training events that made the operation marginal. The Qs came in under the old Continental scope, and until UAL had new joint scope they could not be on the same certificate as the CRJ 900s. Any way you look at it the Q operation was a financial disaster, and Delta very rightly refused to invest money in an operation that had no prayer of being financially viable.

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Nope just spent my time in hell at PCL while that mess was going on.

Delta allowed Comair to RFP to string the Comair pilots along on hope and faith. Delta never intended for a wholly owned Comair to get flying for other legacy airlines. Comair pilots had a history of "just sign this or accept this, and gasp, new RFPs and new planes!"

FFDs in the regional industry is a dying model. The mainline is going to expose the regional to more costs than before. The regionals are no longer what they were meant to be, a cheap labor force that had constant movement. Now everyone at the regionals is basically topped out, 8-12+ year CAs and lots of 6+ year FOs. Long run, this high labor cost and FFD model is not sustainable. Delta is taking the first step at fixing it and the most proactive of the legacies. 5 years from now, regionals will start to disappear and many regional flights will be done by the 717 at Delta. The regionals will also not be able to get ATP rated pilots for only 23 grand a year. The only way to attract an already short pool of regional applicants is to offer more pay, and it will come to a breaking point where a regional just can't do it at a lower cost than a major. There will be more industry consolidation in the next 5 years, but the regionals will shrink in pilot numbers over that time.

Six pages and only a couple of posts that have anything to do with the original topic.

APC has become just one big wild west show. No Sheriffs in town from the looks of it. Otherwise the hammer would have come down a long time ago in this thread. It is the same couple of posters who keep drifting it.

Sorry, what did you want to hear? More regional aircraft and less mainline jobs? Because that is what's happening when AA buys E175/190s for regional airlines.

At least now you admit you were wrong and DL management allowed a wholly owned subsidary to bid on flying outside of Delta. But you go off the reservation again when you claim that somehow, if United has awarded Comair flying that Delta was going to change their mind. Geez Shy do you know ridiculous this sounds?



Shy you're crazy. Regionals would love to go back to the revenue sharing model. They were raking in the cash under this model in the late 90s. FFD was created because mainlines were unhappy with spending all the money on marketing and allowing regionals to piggyback with little expense. The only routes mainline is interested in revenue sharing are EAS routes that have very low load factors. The last 3 major RFP awards (Republic/Eagle, Trans States/United, and Delta/Pinnacle) were all capacity purchase agreements.

We'll see if the pilot shortage pushes more flying up to mainline. I'm not sold on the shortage yet, but the indications are it may be happening.

A wholly owned regional will not fly for another legacy airline. If it spins off, then all bets are off. There's hardly any past precedence.

And Mesaba flew for USAir while being wholly owned by Delta also.

All are good points. But don't rule out PSA getting some aircraft, if those new RJ's are 900's. All of our pilots are already typed on the aircraft, reducing training cost considerably for the pilots we will need to upgrade for the growth. Cost for hiring pilots off the street to replace the first officers that will be upgrading will remain the same. The training department is expanding. By September the downstairs in Dayton will be PSA's and it is set up to have large classes running at the same time. We could have upgrades, new hires, and flight attendant classes being conducted without the claustrophobic felling we have now. Yes we will need to have another sim for the 900 differences but it will probably be cheaper to send the pilots to Montreal for a 2 day sim session than it will be to buy one. Yes MZ did pass away but surprisingly KH is showing his face more and has made it clear that he knows PSA must grow with larger aircraft or we are all out of jobs. Last but not least PSA is cheap.

You're right, psa needs to replace these 200's or we are out of a job. We are cheap its true. I think the corporation pays almost no tax being HQ in vendalia, and being a "job creator". Our mx hanger in Cak is essentially free. Investment is being made (expanding training center, cat II) but I just can't see Parker passing on a chance to whipsaw. If they are offered here, it will be for the deal that eagle is being offered now. In that event, I'd rather pass anyways.

While you say you'd rather pass, id rather be a part of a modernizing/expanding carrier and have a job then sit here and say NO NO NO! And watch PSA disappear or worse yet get merged with PDT that is a very senior company and see a bad QOL shift.... If offered 700/900s to replace the 200s and even add on a few airframes up to the point our pay doesn't go up (keeping us cheap) id be all for it. Sure, what's "deserved" and "proper" and only right for us is a different story.... If you're looking for correct compensation this is the wrong industry. We're way past the slave driver point. Screw it, might as well make it a secure slave driver job.

I really wish you didn't work here. You want security? RAH is hiring and offering bonuses, please go. It wouldn't be tough for you to start over, you've been here what? A year? You should go for it. Growing fleet and very secure.

People like you who are wrecking this career. Bet you still live with mom and dad to.

I have friends at RAH and wouldn't touch their working conditions with a 10 foot pole. Sounds like you have 170 fever...

And while you wish I didn't work here, I do. Thanks for the comradery... I never insulted you. Just added a slightly positive spin to something.

Been at PSA nearly 6 years..... Upgrade would be nice but I'd not say yes just to upgrade. Id rather start over or get out then lower a standard so I can get a quicker upgrade etc.....

I'm not insulting you either. I've been here six years and in contract negotiations for most of them. We finally have a contract and some new FO is telling me we need to accept paycuts to grow. As nicely as I can say this, RAH has growth and security you seek, at cost you are obviously okay with (pay, workrules). I just don't want you having a vote here when Parker brings the eagle deal to psa, nothing personal.

Cool your jets man... Seriously.

I guess that's why it would be called...a vote?

Positive spin? give me a break. We don't need people like you in this industry. This is why we are in the situation that we are in, because to many people think like you! Help the profession, don't tear it down. This isn't a hobby for me it is my career!

So why cast a vote that will help tear this place down? That place already exists, they're hiring, and they're offering signing bonuses. They have 47 modern airplane coming. In 2 years you'll be in a much better relative seniority position at RAH than you will be here. Psa upgrade is going to hit 7+ years soon.
Rah will only be coming down and fast. You should go for it seriously. Its your fastest route to a major.

Guys-

Just brought up a viewpoint. Fullflank thank you for keeping it conversational. I should clarify I wasn't so much thinking of us taking cuts as much as just adding onto what is and pay stays the same- sorry I wasn't clearer. I just want a balance of job security and realism.

We're all in this together whether we like it or not. I'm 10 years in on this business....it only gets worse every day.

So if the current 900's and 175's have 79 and 80 seats respectively, how many seats do you think these supposedly new RJ's are going to have?!?! Is Parker going to order bigger aircraft to put less seats than what he is flying in them now?

The USAir flying was done after they were sold to Pinnacle.

Flysooner is absolutely right! "Cool your own jets man... Seriously!!":rolleyes:

Ahh, you're right.

It's starting to get jumbled in my head, lol.

is this for real?

?New? AA Management Ties RJ Buy to More Cost Concessions at Regionals | Aviation International News


I mean: can anyone confirm that Parker actually said this?

Well, that's what has been discussed. And yes, it's true.

Thank Pinnacle for lowering the bar even further...

I wouldn't throw stones at Pinnacle, your union representatives are contemplating and listening to management's request for a B Scale. If Eagle allows a B Scale it will impact the industry more than what Pinnacle did.

Pinnacle had an 1113 filled against them, their Union reps turned down the company's proposal and went to the judge, it was found that the company was asking for things it didn't need. Then Delta stepped in and said you either accept this or we will liquidate you.

Eagle never had an 1113 filled against us, we took the first offer and the union spun it as a great accomplishment, they sold the idea of a furlough protection being as good as having a plan for the airline and 3 out 4 pilots who voted accepted the offer.

The Eagle pilot group is weak and haven't stood their ground. The union leadership and the members roll over every time.