New AA Regional Aircraft Order
 

American close to regional aircraft order with Bombardier or Embraer


It wont be for L-Eagle since we are to costly.

I hope you guys get them... I have family in the MX base in TUL so I have a soft spot in my heart for AMR employees.
Although on the van yesterday there was an Eagle captain griping to my captain about our (9E) contract and how it was hurting Eagle, when he should be putting his frustrations into RAH and CHQ who are legitimately taking away your flying.

What do you think the 824 or whatever you call them will do to your company costs once they move on? Are they high seniority guys? I would think that once your flow starts then your costs would come down, no?

1. That Eagle CA is a tool. Its no pilot faults of what management is doing with AMR flying.

2.The 824 hasn't even starting yet.(maybe someday) it will take years to go through them if at all. They are the first 824 guys on seniority.

3. You said it."once the flow starts"......

4. Honestly, I dont want new airplanes at L-Eagle if we are going to fly them for Mesa wages. I rather shut this place down.

5. But massive movement and pilot shortage will help everyone!!!!!!!!

bonesbrigade, that captain was an ***. There is some truth to other airlines contract affecting others but it comes down to that airline pilots to stand up. What that captain was doing is passing the blame for his own stupidity. Should have told him you just signed a contract why is your union leadership negotiating changes, that is the true problem at eagle, a runaway uncontrolled corrupt mec supported by alpa national.

if eagle pilots want a better life then they should stop selling out for a maybe job at mainline that teh last time took 16 years to get it to work.

Do you ever try to get facts before you grace the Interwebs with your knowledge? "Taking away their flying"? Huh? You being serious? Do you realize that CHQ flies for AA under a contract that originated with TWA? Do you realize that SKW has been flying for AA for a year now and that Republic still hasn't received their first plane for AA yet? I know, I know, facts are stupid. Try to get 'me before you post nonsense.

PDT is supposed to get some of the new jets.

Hahahaha! Couldn't help myself.

Another strategic move by Parker. Eagle takes the paycuts and gets the jets. If not send them to skywest/rah/mesa.

Not saying I agree with the Eagle CAs methods, but if you think the decision by 9E pilots to cave on the contract concessions doesn't affect everybody else, then you are really being naiive. Pattern bargaining has ruled this industry for years so what one pilot group gets (or loses) affects everybody else.

What the 9E pilots did was well within their rights to do as a pilot group, and they did what they feel was best for them. But on the other hand, don't come around crying because other pilot groups are angry because they are now having to look at concessions because you decided to vote for a concessionary contract.

You might be right, it will fit in right with ya'lls pay and rules.

And you are well within your rights to just vote no, you don't want to have all these other pilots groups mad at you, do you?

New AA Regional Aircraft Order
 

9E is not competing for any flying except Delta flying. 9E will only fly for Delta as long as it is wholly owned by Delta. You see where I'm going with this? 9E has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

You need to read the other thread here titled "Parker want concessios at eagle". There is a link of the proposal and Parker mentions 9e by name time and time again. So yes, 9e has everything to do with this.

I am aware. He can say he wants a contract like 9E, but he can't say they will lose flying to 9E if they don't take concessions. Unless its delta flying.

If you honestly believe Gumm won't take a look at a good deal offered by Parker, and take it back to his handlers at Delta, then you really don't understand this industry or how it operates.

Not saying it will or will not happen. But if you look at the history of regionals over the last 20 years, the tendency is for mainlines to try and divest themselves of wholly owned regional operations. If you think Gumm and or Anderson are not capable of changing an agreement that would make Pinnacle...err..Endeavor more attractive to outside investors then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. 10 years from now it is likely Endeavor will either be sold off or parted off. Delta is unlikely to keep them on the books long term. This whole deal is just an eerie repeat of what NWA did with Express One in 1997.

Bottom line this is about making as much money as possible. If Parker makes Gumm/Anderson an offer they will look at it. Be careful about making exclusionary statements or believing management when they issue them. In this business, it will make you look like a fool.

Or PSA? In addition to considering RAH/Mesa/Skywest

Doesn't really matter. I would expect to take the heat for my decision because I know it affects more than just my job and my pilot group. I just get sick and tired of 9E pilots whining and crying when other pilots point out that they are now looking at concessions because of what the 9E pilot group decided to do.

It was your right to decide what you wanted to do. You made your decision. Man up and take the heat for it.

You trip. Gumm ain't bidding on flying from Parker.

You can also read where Mr Chip, COO of SkyWest airlines mentions pinnacles new contract the standard for regional airlines in the first negotiations with the SkyWest Airline Pilots Association, so you guys have a lot to do with other regionals and their pay negotiations

You trip if you don't think Gumm will look at any deal that will make his company more money.

Hmmmmm seems you forget that Delta told 9E to cancel the Q contract because they didn't want to be paying a competitor, even after UA offered to pay more money.

Oy...
typical thread drift off topic.

Everything Colgan was dumped because that certificate was more of a mess than Pinnacle, and Delta was cleaning up Trenary's mess. Delta's big issue was not paying for the training of pilots to fly for UAL. To compare the trainwreck 9E had become by the time Menke took over, to what is going on now is apples to oranges.

These guys look at deals every day. You'd be amazed at some of the stuff that gets turned down. But if you don't think Anderson and Gumm would consider changing an agreement to increase Endeavor Air's (still giggle when I say that) profitability (and increase the value of Delta's investment) and make them more attractive to a potential buyer, then you really don't understand how this industry works.

9E voted in concessions because Delta made most of the pilots believe that they would shut us down if we didn't take concessions.

The funny thing is that all the other pilot groups are going to cave because "Pinnacle made us do it".

They are the ones that need to "man up" and vote NO if they don't like the proposal given to them and quit whining and crying about a situation they didn't live through.

Exactly Bartok. All they gotta do is vote no, just like they told us right? It's that simple guys! Oh that's right it's always someone else's job to fall on the sword.

well would that be not the case for every mainline who contracts out the feed to a non owned carrier. one is always supporting the other mainlines feeder especially if one feeder feeds more than one mainline at the same time. they all do it, argument does not hold up to reality of the current business model mainlines employ.

The Pinnacle situation was very different from what happens at other regionals with multiple codeshares. Part of the deal for buying Mesaba was Delta would pay for the cost of integrating Mesaba and retraining all the pilots. When Pinnacle sent them the bill, Delta refused to pay because pilots were being retrained for the United Q400s as well, and Delta said they were not going to pay to retrain pilots for United, only Delta. The withholding of this payment (along with many other factors) pushed 9E into bankruptcy.

Once Delta basically bought the company in bankruptcy they wanted nothing to do with the United Q400s and the Colgan certificate was dropped.

Thread drift in the first reply. That is fast even by APC standards.

Soooo....who's getting the AA/US RJ's on order?

Endeavor Air....haven't you been reading? :D

Realistically its pretty wide open. Even heard a rumor that Parker was shopping Piedmont to Hulas with the idea of more AA flying in mind. Not saying I believe it, but one of the wilder rumors I've heard over the last few days.....:eek:

I don't think Parker even knows right now, but if I had to guess eagle will get the airplanes after getting some sort of a concessionary deal stuffed down their throat. Haven't we already seen all this before?

Unfortunately this is a likely scenario, but I doubt Eagle will get all of them.

Ok enough 9E talk. There are countless threads devoted to that topic. Any PSA guys care to chime in? Any word on your side about new aircraft?

Not going to come to PSA. Here is why I think that: PSA doesn't have the infrastructure for growth. We have one Sim that runs 24hrs/day to accommodate recurrent, new hire etc. They've been asking airways for another, no luck. The one guy who wanted growth, the VP, just passed away. If we get more 700/900's our pay will actually go up because of the blended rate. Parker is obviously trying to get labor to fly these things cheaper, not actually pay pilots more than now. All that, and I'm very confident in saying that PSA is not going to be considered for this flying.

PSA and PDT merge, just for staffing needs if for nothing else. Add the new airframes. Park the Dash's. Use PDT's contract and PSA's current 70+ rates until new rates are agreed on. Maybe?

A wholly owned Delta carrier will not be operating for another mainline carrier. That has never happened when Delta owns the regional. As long as Delta owns Endeavor, it will be DCI only.

Maybe the reasoning for the CAs, but most FOs voted to get the money payout (6 grand or so for many). Capping them at 4 yrs at 37/hr is not something any FO would vote yes for unless there was a payout. You could make more your first year at any LCC or your second year at any regional with RJs. The union knew that. The SSP was for the senior side to vote yes. The money payout was to get the FOs to pass it.

And even Eagle is getting memos that the new Pinnacle is the kind of cost structure they need to aim for to thrive. The race to the bottom will continue. And to think, the regionals have no pilots coming through the pipeline. That's leverage and people are still voting yes to paycuts. Pilots yell unity and strength, at the end of the day they are the biggest self-serving interest individuals known to mankind.

they are called the mainline wannabes.

(This has nothing to do with this thread, but...)

You are unaware that Comair bid for and won several contracts for flying regional feed for other main line carriers while being wholly owned by Delta. Ultimately these awards were turned down usually because the term (length of contract) wasn't worth the time and $$ to hire, train and create additional bases.

The point is that IF the parent company wants its wholly owned subsidiary to do outside work, it will.

Comair above and below wing services were also contracted out to other companies as well as heavy mtc for other regionals.


Please try to refrain from commenting on subjects that you really don't have the experience in this industry to comment on.

Consider past history with Pinnacle and Delta. Delta cut the payment due to Pinnacle because they didn't want to pay for the United side of things. While Delta may contract below wing services to other airlines, I don't think you'll see Endeavor fly as AA/UA or any other airline's regional.