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-   -   Stop the Whipsaw! (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/76190-stop-whipsaw.html)

fatsopilot 09-18-2013 11:18 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1486490)
Poor choice of words on my part. There are a few perspectives at play here, what I perceive to be my MEC's view, your MEC's view, National's view, my opinion ... I wasn't very clear.

Ideally, your airline is in ALPA because you use each other to coordinate your bargaining and bargain up, improving contracts with each successive round.

That process has failed with Pinnacle's bargaining to score flying with concessions.

I have pointed you to the resources descriptive of how to manage your union.

This will not be pretty for the non ALPA players either. Unity is only as strong as the weakest link.c

It wasn't so much a score of flying as much as it was a loss of less flying.

jethikoki 09-19-2013 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1486490)
Poor choice of words on my part. There are a few perspectives at play here, what I perceive to be my MEC's view, your MEC's view, National's view, my opinion ... I wasn't very clear.

Ideally, your airline is in ALPA because you use each other to coordinate your bargaining and bargain up, improving contracts with each successive round.

That process has failed with Pinnacle's bargaining to score flying with concessions.

I have pointed you to the resources descriptive of how to manage your union.

This will not be pretty for the non ALPA players either. Unity is only as strong as the weakest link.c

I've got no problem with what you say, you make more sense than 99% of the majority of the postings!

Da Magic 09-24-2013 06:48 AM

What's this talk of Nov 26th?

Gofish 09-24-2013 10:28 AM

A powerful idea.

LarryDavid 09-24-2013 02:17 PM

Any regional pilot that works at a company with mostly 50 seaters that thinks he can actually make a difference has his head in the sand. If they can't find applicants they can just let the contracts expire and park the planes. Shortage solved. There will be no shortage at the majors or regionals. The regionals have zero leverage as we are contractors, nothing more.

NoLightOff 09-24-2013 03:17 PM


Originally Posted by LarryDavid (Post 1489686)
Any regional pilot that works at a company with mostly 50 seaters that thinks he can actually make a difference has his head in the sand. If they can't find applicants they can just let the contracts expire and park the planes. Shortage solved. There will be no shortage at the majors or regionals. The regionals have zero leverage as we are contractors, nothing more.

I think it's sad that there are 5 negative comments for any productive or positive ones. Probably a lot of management guys on here. Just because ALPA is doing nothing for the regionals does not mean we can't do for ourselves. We don't need a union...we just need to unite. There's no better place than this or social media. All it takes is 10% or maybe 15% of ****ed off underpaid FO's to do you know what at the same time. I say FO's because most captains no longer care as much because they can afford warm meals every day now. I imagine if Republic did this they would have a new contract in 3 months.

Dictated, not read.

LarryDavid 09-24-2013 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by NoLightOff (Post 1489720)
I think it's sad that there are 5 negative comments for any productive or positive ones. Probably a lot of management guys on here. Just because ALPA is doing nothing for the regionals does not mean we can't do for ourselves. We don't need a union...we just need to unite. There's no better place than this or social media. All it takes is 10% or maybe 15% of ****ed off underpaid FO's to do you know what at the same time. I say FO's because most captains no longer care as much because they can afford warm meals every day now. I imagine if Republic did this they would have a new contract in 3 months.

Dictated, not read.

Hate to say it but if 10-15% of FOs quit then the flying will either be covered by a different company with larger planes or they will just accelerate the parking of your 50 seaters(required by scope anyway) and just downgrade captains to cover the FO slots. Too many Regional pilots are simply delusional and bury their heads deep in the sand.

Mainline got roaring drunk on 50 seaters in the post 9-11 era. It worked great til oil got expensive now they can't get rid of them fast enough. Scope won't allow all those 50 seat airplanes out there to be replaced 1-1 therefore some Regionals will shrink. A lot of airlines out there have mostly 50 seaters in their fleets (TSA, air wisconsin, SkyWest Inc., etc.) An airline like SkyWest Inc. is very likely to shrink. Just look at how many 50 seaters they have. Sorry but there is no leverage

I was one of the delusional Captains but I woke up and smelled the coffee. I got too comfy with my 14 years seniority and my cush schedule. I felt sorry for myself after I failed my Southwest interview and I got lazy. I am kicking myself for it but I am actually doing something about it. I updated my resumes, updated my logbook and sent out my apps. I also went back to school so I could have a backup plan. There will be no pilot shortage anywhere. Mainline has plenty to take from the regionals and the regionals have a lot of 50 seaters to park. The truth hurts but it is what it is. We can stomp our feet until we are blue in the face but we will never have leverage at the regionals as long as we are contractors.

NoLightOff 09-24-2013 06:06 PM


Originally Posted by LarryDavid (Post 1489831)
Hate to say it but if 10-15% of FOs quit then the flying will either be covered by a different company with larger planes or they will just accelerate the parking of your 50 seaters(required by scope anyway) and just downgrade captains to cover the FO slots. Too many Regional pilots are simply delusional and bury their heads deep in the sand.

I'm not saying quit. Many companies offer free flu shot for their employees. It's not because they care about your health. It costs them so much when you get sick. Especially when many people get sick at the same time.

Spirit went on strike for how long until the company caved? Of course it takes forever to get to that point but that was the only way they got what they have. Point is whatever costs the airlines money is what they take notice of.

If this guy gets a good group of pilots calling out sick on the same days every month or so it will make the news...it will get the company's attention...it will motivate them to consider change. The companies will then make empty threats but there's nothing they would be able to do. Their hands would be tied. If your're sick you're sick. Hopefully, it would also show crews that we are not powerless and our hands aren't the ones tied.

Also keep in mind that airlines monitor this forum and take notice if there is any unwanted talk. Trust me I know. So it's not at all surprising that there's so much negativity on here. It is after all a public forum. Take away hope and dreams and it will be business as usual.

Fly safe.

PeopleMover90 09-24-2013 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by LarryDavid (Post 1489686)
Any regional pilot that works at a company with mostly 50 seaters that thinks he can actually make a difference has his head in the sand. If they can't find applicants they can just let the contracts expire and park the planes. Shortage solved. There will be no shortage at the majors or regionals. The regionals have zero leverage as we are contractors, nothing more.

I completely agree. Larry David I still remember you from a commuter thread about commuting and disagreed with you and didn't get a good vibe. This post, excellent sir. These people need to realize its a business and no one gives a ****.

Paid2fly 09-24-2013 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by PeopleMover90 (Post 1489927)
I completely agree. Larry David I still remember you from a commuter thread about commuting and disagreed with you and didn't get a good vibe. This post, excellent sir. These people need to realize its a business and no one gives a ****.






At some point if the business has cut pay and benefits too much, combined with new ATP min requirements, age 65, and new rest rules, the worst paying/quality of life employers will not be able to get the far fewer willing to work under those crappy contracts in the door.
Also, if every pilot group refuses pay/benefit/work rule cuts hundreds of multimillion dollar airframes can't and won't be parked overnight! No way can all the feed be replace or shuffled that quickly, nor is there enough "slack" in any airlines training departments(or sims) to pick up any significant amount of flying in a reasonable amount of time.
All any pilot group would accomplish by taking cuts would be lining managements pockets as they give themselves bonuses for the pilots losses/sacrifices.


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