Your experience gained removes you from the category. ATP is just one of those places..... poor mgmt (not at making money, but in regards to customer service), wam bam thankya mam, go and fail because you can just try again.... type places. I was trained 61 and gained a lot of experience before I went there. I had a 1000 hours when I signed up for the 2 week CFI program. I was amazed at the mentality of the MGMT and the low time instructors. One of my instructors there was very very smart and was a good stick, but had failed two checkrides because of the rush to take the checkrides unprepared. Four of us in my CFI class were normal 61 types and none had failed a ride, while 3/5 of the ATP kids had failed atleast once. The four 61 guys, myself included, managed to pass each CFI ride, while about a third of the ATP kids were not so lucky.

I have only been exposed to the JAX location, I hear some are better. Moral of the story, I am not going to prejudge anyone who went to ATP. But if they show signs of being a ****ty pilot...I will know who to blame.

AVIVII, I had not read your last post when I replied above.

Agree 100% with what you write.

However, answer this question: would you recommend someone to train at a school where you are rushed through all your ratings in 90 days and where you might be taught by an instructor who set foot on an aircraft for the first time only 3 months before you?:rolleyes:

What can you say about the quality of flight instruction you provided when you were fresh out of the 90 day course, after ONLY 2 WEEKS of training to obtain ALL 3 instructor licenses?

Try to be honest....

Honestly, I didn't feel rushed. I too, was at the JAX location and based on my experiences at other locations, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I definitely would not have a problem recommending ATP to someone. Granted, it isn't for everyone. I was fresh out of a very challenging and fast paced engineering school, and had completely immersed myself in aviation. So to wake up and hit the books, go to the airport and fly, do ground school over lunch, head to the sim to then end the day with some beers on the beach or by the pool, the whole time studying, learning and concentrating on airplanes was enjoyable for me. 90 days seems like a real short period of time to some people, but when you are doing it every day, instead of just once or twice a week, your retention is much higher and you are able to concentrate without all of the other outside influences and distractions.

To answer your question, I would definitely recommend ATP, but only to certain individuals. It is definitely not for everyone. As far as the CFI course is concerned, I had no problem what so ever with it. I think the main reason for that was that i did all of my commercial stuff from the right seat and had already been talking through all of the maneuvers and teaching them, regardless of whether I had to or not. On the same note, I was one of the unlucky ones that had to take my MEI ride, which is also the initial instructor ride with the FSDO (Some people got to take it with a DPE). Despite that fact, I have never failed a check ride. (** Knock on wood, I'm going to take my ATP next week!) Back to the CFI course, the man that taught the course at JAX was Walt Schamel, Master CFI. This guy was great I could not have asked for a better instructor. One of the instructors that I flew with for my II prep was on her way out and kind of acted like it, but over-all, I had no problems with them.

I really hate to see the place get such a bad rap around here. It did great by me because I put the time and effort in. Yeah, you are on a schedule, so if you start spending way too much time surfing on the beach and then fail your multi-commercial twice followed by flopping your commercial single, its not because of the school. Its because you weren't committed to the program. Even though they stuff a funnel in your ear and start pouring stuff in, it is still up to the individual to make something of it. The thing that really sucks is that there are people who can go through the program, do nothing, learn nothing and still pass the checkrides. Some of these idiots i wouldn't let wash my car, let alone fly a plane.

I am more than happy to answer any questions that anyone has regarding this topic. If you don't want to put it on the board, feel free to PM me.

oh yeah, and unless they changed the program, all of our training was part 61 too. I was there 3 years ago though. Like I said, I passed all of my check rides as did the other 3 guys that were in the program right along with me / lived with me.

If they have completely changed, then I don't know what to tell you. I had great instructors and had a great impression of the management. After I left I had many phone conversations with Jim K. while I was trying to decide my course of action. He helped me a lot even though I didn't decide to come back and work for him. All this negativity really does surprise me.....

I happen to know a Freedom guy who knew nothing about the hows and whys of the origination of Freedom, but was still denied a jumpseat because he's a Freedom pilot. As I'm sure you're aware, it still happens.