Eagle AIP
 

The reps. are going to vote it down this week. Source, the reps. It lost the votes becuase we (not rj pilot) told our reps where to tell Parker to shove it.

Please let this be true

In the other thread it said the meeting will be delayed a few weeks. I wouldn't count on hearing anything until next month.

I did the simple thing of contacting the reps. And all replied (except yessers) that it lost the votes and will be shot down at next meeting. No metion of a delay from any of em.

Also daddy P is getting a pay raise!!!!

Hopefully this is true

Anyone who votes yes needs to be recalled immediately *coughglenna*. Did Murray respond?

Nice negotiating tactic. Let's see what EGL mgt will counter with.

Yes, but he didn't say what his vote was, he just said it was going to be voted down at the next meeting.

Over on eaglelounge Cujo stated the vote is delayed because the language hasn't been finished and the MEC has to go to ALPA HQ.

Cujo is the NY captain rep.

The MEC has to go to ALPA HQ? For what? Reeks of getting sent for "Reeducation" at a gulag...

It's not the MEC, it's the MEC leadership. This meeting has been scheduled for a few weeks and it's for all ALPA regionals. All ALPA regionals will let in DC represented by their MEC leadership.

Best news I've heard on this whole turd deal in a while. I was thinking they might try to filibuster till the new MIA reps came in, sounds like they won't even have to now.

delete ...

This is great news! now they will have to come back and propose us a better deal.

RJ Pilot: happy ??

.....you have the controls, clearly I'm disoriented.

I heard once it is voted down Parker will have to make all eagle pilots mainline. That way he can save face and "shut eagle Down" then have mainline fly the planes.

For what it's worth:

I was told by four different people (three from Eagle ALPA and one from APA) that the APA wanted all current Eagle pilots stapled to the bottom of their list and the E-175s flown by us as "American Airlines".

This was a big push by APA and it was blocked by "the company". Not sure if that means the old AA or the new AA but there you go. Perhaps after a NO vote Parker will have no choice as you said.

You mean just shutdown the flying side. Why Envoy doesn't have Airlines, Air, Airways, etc at the end of the name?? They've been growing the ground handling side for a couple of years now.

Are the 175s already ordered or is it possible they will just convert them to 190s and putt hem on mainline?

The "E" Jet order started this summer...
 

The order for the E jet was started at the end of this last summer and has almost been completely finalized. The rumor is that the final contract language is being delayed so as to attach actual 175 serial numbers promised by AAG to the agreement. In the event Eagle rejects the offer and AAG is unable to farm the flying out to another regional, or another FFD carrier is unable to offer their own 175s or staff new 175s courtesy of AAG... the remainder of the aircraft options are convertible to E-190/5s and could be delivered without interruption and on schedule to the new AAG. These would fall into the group 1 classification defined in the new section 3 at the new AAG.

In light of listening to the conference call and reading Winkley's letter, I believe there is much change happening specifically to some of Eagle's bases (Envoy's bases). There was an announcement and subsequent discussion on the conference call regarding "re-banking" of some of the American System, particularly in MIA, DFW, and ORD. It was stated that the "re-banking" will take place initially this fall in MIA, followed by other bases excluding New York & LAX. The primary discussion on the call regarded "re-fleeting." There was much talk about "replacing" 50 seats into 76 seats, and exchanging such aircraft. This is very much inline with Winkley's letter.

Furthermore, it was stated that 25 E140's will be retired in 2014 in addition to 2 -100's (not Envoy's of course). NO MENTION of E145's. Total regional aircraft count currently 558 and will increase to 574 (not necessarily all in 2014). It was specifically said the 60 E-175's have NOT been allocated and that Envoy's pilots will be voting on a new contract in February.

Lastly, based on current Eagle contract, Eagle should be receiving their bonus based on financial results come March. I could not decipher the actual margin Eagle earned but overall combined carriers future margin is projected to be 6-8%. Based on that if Eagle's is inline, pilots would earn a minimum of 15% of pre-tax profit based on letter 13-05.

With that said, there was nothing earth shattering, but based on the letter and conference call, there is assured to be big changes in "re-fleeting" and "re-banking," which would occur to be taking place in MIA very soon, followed by DFW & ORD.

What exactly does "re-banking" in those domiciles mean? Grow? Shrink?

In short, neither. It's a system wide domicile adjustment. It adjusts capacity and arrival/departure times and schedules. The capacity can be adjusted by increasing or decreasing capacity on certain routes and adjusting times to accommodate layover times and such.

As stated on the call, they are planning on adding capacity on certain routes by replacing type of aircraft flown. It was specifically stated about the exchange of 50 to 76 seats in the same conversation of banking.

They said by banking such times it will improve revenues and net profits by the millions of dollars (I don't recall the exact amounts mentioned if it did.).

In my opinion, Winkley and company are not bluffing on many matters. It might not be all spelled out exactly how it might be, but at the same time they ARE going to adjust capacity and distribution of flying especially at some of Eagle's domiciles....with our without Envoy flying it. That's the impression I got after listening to the conference call and reading Winkley's letter.

Judging by the last ALPA communication it appears Sprague believes in the shut down scenario.

Or you might just get a better offer the second time around.

This is the second time around for us. Will there be a third? Who knows. The company has stated that it's now or never, but we all know what their word is worth...

+1. Considering this IS the second time around, the company will go for option #2. They already have another regional to go to in case this TA falls through and its NOT PSA. More flying will be given away along with all the CRJ's.

It will be a slow dying process until the last EMB 145 is gone.

So there, there will be no 3 time to bite the apple…

It would be the third time around if that's the case, and yes, maybe you're right, but maybe not. I believe that should be up to the pilots to decide and not only the MEC. There's a lot a stake and everyone should have a chance to vote in my opinion.

The fact is, there are billions of dollars in aircraft orders. With a clear strategy of adjusting MIA times, schedules, and capacity starting in the fall, followed by DFW & ORD. Do you think they will be waiting much longer to make a move? Or do you think they will come back to the table?

I'm not advocating a yes vote by any means because this deal is probably not worth a yes vote. But the pressure has been put on Eagle by the likes of PSA.

AAG IS going to put these somewhere and will be announcing relatively soon. They WILL be banking the hubs which will have a direct impact one way or another. Many believe management lies all the time to labor (which they may do or at the very least make gross exaggerations), but you can not lie to investors and the SEC. They have a plan, it's in the earnings calls and reports. It will be determined how Eagle/Envoy fits in that puzzle...maybe vote no and get it anyway, maybe not.

Most likely mgt knows where the airframes are going already. They just want to lock y'all into a contract as cheaply as possible for the next 10 years. They know they cannot cover your flying with anybody else because they see nobody else can fill a class either. That's why they've sweetened the deal once already.

And did you see how much AAG made last qtr? You think they need these concessions? Why in hell would you give them concessions? Hold the line. Get paid what you deserve!

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/a...scheduling.ece

American to Alter Some Hub Schedules in Plan to Boost Earnings - Businessweek

Here are two small article about the "re-banking." In this article it mentions nothing of "re-fleeting" or exchanging 50 to 76 seats, but in the conference call it did.

Your going to get the planes your going to get no matter what! Vote no! Let's change this industry around

+1 someone gets it!

Of course they don't need more concessions. It's called fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. Like it or not.

Says who? The only guarantee if its a NO vote is the dying fleet of embraer 145's till they die.

Not. They are preying on emotion and shiny new objects. Some are gullible. Some are not. As far as "fiduciary responsibility" goes, the entire group should bear it. How about everyone take a 20% haircut?? Let's make those shareholders happy!!

You think I'm advocating this contract, or think I agree? I'm simply putting out information that came directly from the shot callers.

I think the whole thing stinks but at the same time everyone needs to be well informed. You can not deny that management has fiduciary responsibility. If not they go to jail (i.e. Enron). And yes, they prey on that but it's not only limited to airlines, it's corporate america.

Vote yes, vote no...make a move and stick to it. But at least know the facts in a rational way. Try to think as others around you do and then you can know others motives and next move. It's a great negotiating tactic that management has mastered and we're just trying to play catch-up.

there is no fiduciary responsibility regarding eagle/envoy, it is a private held entity not a public company. planes are going to go top whom management wants. if they can get another feeder to get there employees to take pay cuts which that is not happening at RAH, SKW or EJT or anyone else that is not owned by a mainline carrier.

the only ones they can scare is the owned feeders. so let them Comair eagle/envoy that is when the fiduciary responsibility at mainline comes in when everyone here at eagle envoy bails in large numbers and they cant replace the feed fast enough they will looses passenger revenue. that is when they have to explain to the board and wall street how they miscalculated and that it will take about 1-2 years to correct. DUI Dougy will be gone and everyone in his management team.

American Airlines Group ticker AAL. Formerly AMR, holding company of AA, Eagle, Executive, and dozens others of companies. What do you mean not public? Just because Eagle/Envoy has no trading ticker does not mean it's not public. Please go look through ALL bankruptcy documents and subsequently read the most recent 8-K and tell me it's not public. Then go one step further and listen to investor relations calls. If it was private, no disclosure is necessary nor SEC filings.

Your assumption that you need to pay employees less to see more return is over simplified. Plus the fact that most people who own the stock probably don't even realize it, they are just part of a large pension or mutual fund.

The truth is an employee is as much if not more of a stake holder in the company than a shareholder of the company. Concessions is just for the largest singular shareholders (top level brass) to cash in on their stock, options etc. All the folks invested via large funds will see pennies if that. It's a wealth transfer plain and simple.