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Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1584915)

Cite your sources. CFR 61.156 says it can be a 121 training program.

I'm guessing that just means they have to create a separate training course for it. As in, it cannot be considered part of the basic Indoc, but just tack on whatever amount of time after indoc and call it ATP prep or whatever and it can be done as part of the initial training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BizPilot (Post 1584933)

So a guy/gal goes from steam-gauge C-172 to a Level C FMS 40,000# jet.
That's a big jump.

I went from Baron 58 to a Lear Jet 24/25 and that was a big jump.
It was like I almost had to re-learn how to fly again. Many things were counter intuitive like landing a Lear (or any jet) power back and then more power is needed as the gear and flaps are down and drag goes way up. Forget the 10% level off rule. Lears can climb 6,000 fpm, you need to start the level off process 3,000' before your assigned altitude. You need to watch the power settings at cruise as you can easily exceed MMO. I only had a part of a 135 in-house ground school followed by on the job flight training. The Lear would dutch-roll on approach with the yaw damper off and it felt like it was out of control. Finally bought several books, "Handling the Big Jets", and "Fly the Wing" to figure out on how to fly a jet.

I think it can be a steep learning curve, but I went from light twins and Cessnas to a +40k# jet and didn't really see THAT big of difference. If anything, those things you're talking about are really just small tweeks to a normal instrument scan. You just have to think a little further ahead of the airplane and manage your energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beech90 (Post 1584163)

What if a person just turned 20 and has ~1700 TT 500 TPIC /135 Current. But cannot take the written due to age, and will not fork over 15K. Zero sympathy for that?

Sorry if this has already been answered but you can take the written prior to turning 21...time to hit the books.
http://www.lasergrade.com/elig/psi-faa_elig_dis.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by KappaSigmaPilot (Post 1585017)

Sorry if this has already been answered but you can take the written prior to turning 21...time to hit the books.
http://www.lasergrade.com/elig/psi-faa_elig_dis.htm

Link doesn't work could you repost or copy and paste

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 1584915)

Cite your sources. CFR 61.156 says it can be a 121 training program.

61.156 says it can be provided by 121 air carrier. From the final rule published in the Federal Register:

To those commenters that suggested the ATP CTP be incorporated into air carrier initial training because the subjects are already taught or because the training only applies to pilots in part 121 operations, the FAA disagrees. The ATP CTP is the base upon which a pilot must build. The concepts in the course will apply to any pilot who flies a large turbine aircraft regardless of operating rule part and therefore has value to pilots flying outside of part 121. The ATP CTP will cover topics the air carrier is not required to teach. For those general knowledge areas that are currently part of a part 121 initial training program, the FAA has modified subpart N to remove those requirements and reduce ground training for those pilots who have completed the ATP CTP. A pilot in an air carrier training program receives training specific to the air carrier’s operation and the specific aircraft that pilot is going to fly. Even if the subjects are offered by an air carrier in initial training, the pilot is focused primarily on learning the company operation and the specific type of aircraft they will fly, not on broader, foundational concepts that the ATP CTP is designed to provide.

Yay let's drop a few thousand dollars more before I even have a job. . .

But you can fly a shiny jet! And they'll even pay you almost $20,000 /yr to do it. What's not to like?