FFDO denial
 

Hey guys,

Got an email from the FFDO people saying I was not selected for the program after the TSA reviewed my application.

The application process and everything seemed completely disorganized and a complete hassle, so I am not too disappointed.

However, I cannot figure out why the TSA would deny me. As far as I know, my record is squeaky clean.

Any experience on these denials and ideas why? Maybe complete disdain of the TSA and everything they do? ;)

Best to just delete this thread now...

Way to go. This thread's existance is proof that the TSA can do their job.

This thread should be locked as I doubt the 15 year old in a suicide bomber camp reading these non-secure/public forums has the need to know.

Never understood why any regional pilot would want to be a FFDO. Automatic rolleyes from me when the CA says "I'm armed!" Great we have captain america over here to save the day.

You're kidding, right? That connection is laughable. Yeah, terrorists in the middle-east are trolling the APC forums for vague information on FFDO applicants... :rolleyes:

I mean, seriously, you ARE joking, right?

They are most likely bombarded with applications and are being very selective. Could be anything. I wouldn't take it to mean you have skeletons in your closet. You may have been in a review that had prior law enforcement and military backgrounds. If it is that important to you I'm sure you can reapply unless your email told you otherwise.

It's not. I was just more curious on the criteria they screened for possible reasons it was denied.

The app was from almost a year ago, so a lot of info on it was old. I think one of my reference's phone numbers changed and I moved as well. Maybe that was it...

Oh well, thanks for the reply.

Could possibly be just that they have enough apps. That being said, the number one reason for denial of a Confidential or Secret clearance is spotty or bad credit.

Anyone with no prior military or law enforcement experience should automatically be rejected in my opinion. Too many needle d!cks signing up for a badge and a gun for the wrong reasons.

For what its worth, most of the FFDO's I know should never have been accepted into the program, and those that should were denied.

You need a security clearance to be an FFDO? I had a TS/SCI once upon a time. Most useless thing I ever had. The US Government over-classifies everything, if FFDO stuff is "classified" that just proves what a joke it is.

And any spy worth a damn is going to have sterling credit, why get tripped up by that? smh -teh stoopid, it burns-

+1 for they probably have enough apps. No shortage of folks who want to prove Quien Es Mas Macho with a pistole. None at all.

In all my time commuting, I've run across those types. Didn't matter if it was a regional or a legacy.

Meh, opinions will vary on who should and shouldn't be selected. There's plenty of cops that wanted to become one because they were tired of getting their a$$ kicked, or feel te need to have to kick peoples a$$es due to this affliction you speak of.

But I've known people that were turned down with mil backgrounds. One was a gaurd pilot, the other was a firearms instructor.

You really think they AREN'T? Of course they are! The bad guys have Google, too.

The first thing you said is ignorant. The second, is none of your business and an opinion.

Ok Clint Eastwood. The first thing I said, "only guys with prior military or law enforcement experience," is common sense, not ignorant.

The second thing I said, "Most of the guys I know who are FFDO's shouldn't be" is my business when the guy is so fixated on his firearm that he can't properly concentrate on his primary objective which is to fly the aircraft.

The whole FFDO program was a knee jerk reaction to 9/11 and is not an effective way to prevent terrorism. In fact, if I were trying to hijack an aircraft, I'd be looking for the one with a gun already on board which is in the possession of an amateur.

Think about it.

Yep....only police officers are not amateurs....

Cop Shoots Self in Foot - YouTube

I'm not going to get in a urinating contest with you. This post confirms your ignorance on the subject. Thanks for saving me the time!

;)

They probably thought since you fly planes for so cheap you might have mental problems. Or maybe they thought you would do anything for an extra buck.:D:D

I'm joking of course and I am not saying your mental. I don't know you..

Good reason actually. A professional foreign agent of course will have a clean cover, but those guys don't actually have access to secrets. Their job is to recruit people who ALREADY have access to secrets.

Most major spy cases in the last few decades were all about money (not counting social media leakers, who are not technically spies). Many of them were fundamentally irresponsible, which reflected in their finances.

Ames, Pollard, Hanssen, Pelton, Pitts, Walker, etc.

It's too much of a PITA for me, (logged enough small arms time in the military, don't need the accountability hassle) but I like the program as long as somebody else is willing to do it.

Since the bad guys have no idea if a pilot will be armed, it creates a significant planning problem for any hijack attempt. They don't have to shoot terrorists, merely the possibility serves as a deterrent...and a lot cheaper than FAMs

But with that said, lets steer clear of any details about FFDO selection or operations.

Operationally that's ludicrous...you bring your own weapon or you don't go. You don't start an op on the premise that you're going to take a gun away from an armed LEO. You've been watching way too many Hollywood movies.

It is a very cheap and effective way to complicate bad-guy planning...it's a big unknown for them. This is anti-terrorism 101, nothing too hard or secret.

The TSA hates it for the same reason the active duty military services hate reserves, and regular cops hate part-time volunteer cops...job security.

I am not interested in saving the day. I am interested in getting to my gate without TSA groping me.

[QUOTE=Ultralight;1615308]Ok Clint Eastwood. The first thing I said, "only guys with prior military or law enforcement experience," is common sense, not ignorant.

The second thing I said, "Most of the guys I know who are FFDO's shouldn't be" is my business when the guy is so fixated on his firearm that he can't properly concentrate on his primary objective which is to fly the aircraft.

The whole FFDO program was a knee jerk reaction to 9/11 and is not an effective way to prevent terrorism. In fact, if I were trying to hijack an aircraft, I'd be looking for the one with a gun already on board which is in the possession of an amateur.


Military yes because there is a higher standard. Law enforcement.......yeah not so much. Also there are plenty of civilians that know how to shoot. I think Clint Eastwood is one of them. :eek:

I was turned down too. I was really disappointed, after I brought my quick draw holster I made to show them I was sincere .

So tells us your thoughts on the ability of one of the two in the WH being able to make the call to have you shot down? I'd be more concerned about that than the TSA.

Never said i was concerned about it. Its just not any fun.In so far as the being shot down scenario. Stuff happens. But avoiding the Thousands Standing Around crew is a personal goal of mine.

Nevermind......

When people sign up for FFDO they are taking on an enormous responsibility. I hope these pilots bear this in mind and keep themselves operational ready. The readiness that I am referring too comes with constant training the way the special forces do. I don't think most FFDO pilots do this and shouldn't continue to serve in that capacity. More federal air marshals that makes more sense.

US Airways Pilot's Gun Fires In Cockpit - CBS News

Everybody remembers this right?

Cops have accidental discharges all the time, half the time shooting themselves. What's your point?

I don't have a point. Just wondering who remembers it, given the topic of discussion.

I started to explain something to you DENPilot. But decided not to. it may not be your background as you think, but I point towards something else. I'm not gna explain anything else publicly.

For those serving in combat arms specialties, yes. As a sweeping generalization across the board? Not on your friggin' life. There are PLENTY of military people who have no business carrying a firearm, and qualified only under the strictly controlled conditions of a small arms range under the the watch of CATM instructors or range control officers.

Conversely, there are also PLENTY of civilians who have undergone as much firearms training as an Army Ranger.

So let's keep the hasty generalizations to a minimum, mmkay?

You sir are a complete baffoon.

Great post, well done. You must be a really smart guy. I guess its easy to call names when you can hide behind your gun.
Stay classy tough guy.

Hollywood movies? What the hell are you talking about? If someone can mastermind something as complex as 9/11 I'm sure they can figure out a plan to disarm a guy strutting his pistol around. By the way, FFDO's are not LEO's. They do no enforce the law and have zero jurisdiction outside of the cockpit.

How to tell a PROFESSIONAL FFDO? You don't know he's an FFDO, that's how.

The rest are a liability.

Idiot, baffoon, ignorant, whatever.

Grow up!

Wow, this spiraled down quickly. A few good posts that I got a good laugh out of.

I really don't get it, I was just trying to understand. The truth is that the TSA "screening" us for carrying a firearm in the flight deck, is completely ludicrous.

Every single one of has the ability to commit unimaginable acts without the use of a firearm. That's why this screening process is odd. Not saying to give any Joe Pilot a gun, but if someone is sincere in their intent, has the right attitude, and can safely pass a training course, I don't see the issue.

Um no... but nice try.

Well that's your problem right there man, you've gone and tried to add logic to this whole situation.

Bad DEN, bad!

This is the case with anyone that carries a firearm; maybe not special forces training but regular training nonetheless. I'm all for the 2nd amendment and a CHL holder in Texas but the "I gotta get a gun" crowd at Cabela's on a weekday in Fort Worth scares the heck out of me (and quit hoarding the ammo people...the zombie apocalypse is years off). The state just reduced the training required to get a CHL and just about anyone can do it. Heck you can have it in your car here without a license and never go to the range. I'm really divided on the issue - there's lots of folks that never step up to the responsibility.

[serious] What training programs are available like this? I'm interested in learning more.

My experience with firearms has been limited to my law enforcement training and that's about it. I couldn't imagine someone/company taking on the liability of training civilians to those standards.