Regional Upgrade times
 

I think I may be a bit confused. It seems all I hear about is regionals unable to find pilots to work for them. With the low pay and QOL as a FO, I guess I understand that. What I don't get, is why it still takes so long to upgrade? If everyone is leaving there, I would think you could move up fairly fast? On APC, Mesa shows the newest captains were hired up to 13 years ago? What is it that holds the process up?

Thanks!

You're just being misled by all the crying and mud slinging. The problem with staffing is finding first year FO's. Pay and qol is a lot better at any company after a few years. Most of the people that leave in mass are from the bottom of the seniority list.

In regards to mesa: that information is incorrect; It's at about 7 years at the moment. Keep in mind that the company didn't hire for several years, so when all the pre-bankruptcy guys get through this year, the time will drop.

Also, you can't upgrade everyone and not hire F/Os to fill in at the bottom. Its a catch 22, we are understaffed yet we can't upgrade anyone, instead we are just canceling block hours and taking less flying.

Its simple math, if your regional airline has a 2000 pilot group, 1000 pilots would have to leave to make you near 50% up the seniority list. More importantly, your airline needs to hire 1000 pilots below you in order to keep you in the top 50%. Now do you see any regional airline hiring that many pilots in the next few years? Not at the current rate. The pilots don't exist at the starting salaries offered currently so since hiring is slow, upgrade will also be slow. except for going to a small regional like compass with a 500-600 pilot group, it will be very hard if not impossible for a new hire to work his way to the left seat. The ability to hire will limit upgrades. Now if the industry does the "right thing" and increases first year pay, then perhaps regionals will be able to hire and upgrades will follow, but that scenario is unlikely.

The industry stagnated for about 8 years which skyrocketed the upgrade times. People are starting to leave now but I've met a lot of captains who decided during those 8 years that they're comfortable and don't want to leave. If captains at the top don't leave then people at the bottom won't upgrade since age 65 retirements don't really happen at regionals. Also in order to upgrade 500 pilots they need to hire 500 to replace them. Most airlines are having trouble hiring FOs so they can't afford to let the current FOs upgrade.

The good news is that a lot of majors and LCCs are hiring people with no PIC time. I know regional FOs with no PIC who have gone to United, AA, US Airways, Spirit, JetBlue and Virgin just within the last year.

It's funny how things change while back it was all about getting the pic time now that the guys got it they are not being looked at , it like u can't win lol

At PSA, wholly owned by American, nothing!! They have FULL classes starting every two weeks. I have several friends who have been hired and they are seeing steady movement. Good luck!

How many PSA recruiters have accounts here?

Mods, this is obviously a PSA recruiter. Check it out. This should not be allowed.

On what grounds should it not be allowed?

Read the forum rules.

Well isn't this a helpful post.

I am aware of the rules and I don't see any being broken.

Why don't you go ahead and copy and paste the applicable section.

The APC Forums are not for classified ads or a venue for webmasters to promote their web sites. Any solicitation, link, or promotion may be removed at the sole discretion of the administrators. If you wish to advertise on our forum please contact us to discuss affordable advertising rates.

Since the individual is a recruiter, perhaps it falls under solicitation?

Cmon.....That is quite a stretch.

How is this any different from any other post in the "hiring" section?

Edit: I do, of course, know why people have a problem with this. Why not just come out firing instead of beating around the bush with "rules"? ;)

Thats what i mean't. No rules have been broken. That was for the person that i quoted.

Indeed.....my apologies.

What?! PSA is and what happened there this year is a complete abortion.

Ahh.....There we go.

See, no subtlety needed here. :D

I don't think anyone has ever tried to be subtle with you guys. It's pretty universally accepted that no one likes you.

Yes - go to PSA. Where the banner reads outside the interview building "We do it for less, because we don't have backbones...but we have shiny planes and candy!"

Ralph!

Well, that was exactly my point. No need to cry that the rules have been broken when you can just say "I don't like you".

Ahem Ahem, PAA wholly Owned my USAirways.

Sorry but Pretty ******* Airlines is not part of AA.

Now we're really cooking with gas!

So much for this thread....

It's different because if a PSA recruiter is actively advertising/recruiting they are representing the company and therefore abusing the "no advertising" rule of the forum. As a pilot who isn't working for an HR department and talks about his/her company hiring it's just conversation. Anyone working for HR coming on here to advertise would be against the rules in my interpretation. That's just my opinion though, I'm not a moderator so i"m just going to b*#&@ about it.

Your too late now to see the fast upgrade at psa, that pyramid scheme is going to collapse.

The problem i have with the above statement is even if you are correct how do you prove someone is HR?

How do you know he is a recruiter? Because the guy above you said he was?

Also, He isn't going to make any money from what he is doing so it's difficult to call it advertising or soliciting.

Everyone who works at Skywest always makes it well known that its great to work there. Is that advertising too?

What about the JetBlue union thread. There are lots of guys in there "selling" ALPA. Is that advertising?

You have Alaska in your name. Do you work for the State of Alaska? Must be advertising!!!

It's a reach, at best.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030821/nat3.jpg :eek:

Why exactly do you think that is the case?

To be fair, it never started. The most junior CA is a 2009 hire.

You might as well say 2011 because those guys will be upgrading in a few months or less.

The entire US airline industry is a pyramid scheme, that's how the system was built.

For the reason your on here cheerleading new hires. You know without them you and everyone running there is screwed. You literally can't afford 7 years in the right seat on that awful contract. It's the night mare Mesa guys lived.

However this bubble will stop soon as the greedy suckers are not a huge pool, and the fear of a missed bubble becomes a clearer reality. ITS a scheme with a huge risk due to the awful fo pay, that's why it won't work. The second the fast upgrade becomes questions the house of cards falls.

That, and the latest new hires are the ones that where stuck when the regionals increased the TT.

Most of them where around 1,000 to 1200 TT. Once they get hire, there will be a couple of months with super low hiring and high attrition.

Well, this doesn't make any sense at all.

By this theory the "super low hiring and high attrition" would've already happened. There's no gap AFTER those 1k-1.2k guys, it would've been before. Which also makes no sense.

FO pay with the TA at the year 4 cap will be the same as it was at the 7 year cap that everyone congratulated us on a year ago this month due to contract language.

Nice, classic misdirection.

zing......

What's in the contract language? I'm not familiar with it but it sounds like your getting paid 7yr rates or something?

To the PSA guy that I left behind yesterday, you should've voted NO.

What are the guarantees that the 200’s are staying?
Republic and Mesa had to shut down part of their 50 seat flying to ease the growing pains, you think PSA won’t need to?
Assuming the American E-jets are to be announced this year, will that inhibit recruiting & upgrades at PSA? It would seem PSA is currently also benefiting from uncertainty at other carriers which won’t be there forever.