Excellent question. I am usually of the "disclose everything if in doubt" philosophy, however 141 checkrides conducted IN HOUSE may not need to be disclosed.

I was a 141 DE at one point. Unless something has changed dramatically a 141 "checkride" (Final Stage Check) cannot really be failed, rather it is merely incomplete.

The details of 141 training do not go into FAA files, including "Incomplete" stage checks.

The school retains the records for 3 years. Technically the PRIA does not apply to initial pilot training, so there is no reason or legal basis for an airline to request or recieve 141 training records. I suppose they could call and ask, but the school would NOT be immune from liability if they bad-mouth you.

Note: If you train at a school and subsequently work there as a CFI, airlines can and will do a PRIA request, and that request could end up including your training records. This is not required, and when I responded to PRIA request for former CFI's I included records related to their employment proficiency checks, but I specifically excluded records from their initial rating training (student records).

If processed correctly there is never a pink slip involved in a 141 stage check. Occasionally an ill-informed DPE who is called on to perform a 141 Final Stage Check will erroneously issue a pink slip...in this case it may be in your FAA record. Try to get your school to correct this immediately.


My recomendations:

1) Do not disclose intermediate stage check "incompletes". Part 91 students don't have to disclose that they had a rough lesson halfway through their instrument rating...why should you?

2) You don't have to disclose Final Stage Check incompletes if they ask "did you ever fail a check ride?" If you want to tell them about it just to show you're honest, go ahead. But if you had multiple failures, you may want to exercise your 141 privilege and not say anything. If they ask specifically about 141 training, better be honest in that case.

 

I used to do stage checks/checkrides for a Part 141 school (everything from Pvt to MEI). You never ever took a checkride at a 141 school, you merely "graduated" from an approved course. Sure, they called the last lesson a checkride, you showed up and treated it like a checkride, and you did everything to PTS, filled out an 8710, etc...but it still was just the last lesson in the course. So, if you failed it, the FAA has nothing on your airman certificate indicating that. When I got asked that on my interview, I told them all my training was 141 and that we had stage checks and end-of-course rides (proper terminology). They then asked if I failed any of those (I did fail stage checks, never EOC's). Take it for what it's worth.

Edit - Basically what rickair said...only shorter

 

Alright, how would you address military checkrides during initial training (T-37)? I didn't complete UPT so I got out and earned my CFII SE and ME certificates. I failed some checkrides in UPT was washed out and reinstated but I lost my medical. I haven't failed any checkrides w/ the DPE or FAA so far.

 

well the examiner sure took my 250 bucks like it was a checkride

 

What's the Computer Test?

 

Be honest about your UPT experience and accept responsibility. Put it on the table - show them you moved on and learned from the experience. You've obviously moved on - for some it can be a real confidence blow and one from which they never recover...

I've worked with guys on active duty that didn't make it thru UPT. 90% of them blamed the system or some women that got away with the same thing and was allowed to pass...Woe is me...

10% accepted responsibility for their actions / experience and took it as a learning experience. Less than 1% of them stayed in the military - the rest served their service commitment and moved on to corporate america / regionals.

-LAFF

 

Checkrides in UPT dont count for anything but UPT. The only real rides that count are Form 8s. Since you didnt take any or complete UPT they dont really count as real checkrides. I would just say you didnt make it through UPT

 

Yeah, I never mentioned the down I got on Fam-13, which is the safe-for-solo check in T-34's. It was 12 years ago. Who cares? I still got winged and never had a PRB.

Interviews: the computer test at Comair is like a 2 hour brain teaser exam. Think souduku on a computer while doing the Iceman pen-flip with your left hand at the same time. I think the key is not to overly concentrate on one item. I supposedly did "very well", whatever that means.

I totally tanked a Horizon interview. I got a bad vibe from the get-go then got my butt kicked by the FO/tech interview girl who was visibly flustered (frowning and started chewing on her pen) when I was painfully slow finding stuff on a Jepp chart. Hello that's what the freakin' index is for. (we use NOS in the military). Anyway, I let that knock me off my script and downhill we a'went. (Eagle didn't care how long I took, actually Jim gave me $hit as I was trying to find stuff). In the end, I was happy they sent me away before the sim. Erin (recruiting girl - very friendly/helpfull) was the only one I ever saw smile there, the CRJ I flew in to PDX in was trashed (way worse than any military plane I've been in) and I missed the last empty seat to get home that night....$240 and SWA got me home and to work the next day. Not a good experience, and totally my fault. Ughh - I hate thinking about it.

All three I did: Comair/Eagle/Horizon were right on with the gouge.

Hints for the Eagle sim: first, I've got 1700 hrs in the E-2, and the ATR flies like a weaker version of that so I crushed it. Anyway...remember, add power = right rudder and nose down trip. Take power off = left rudder and nose up trim. Use the IP - ballpark the power and say "set power for 150kts at 1/3 flaps please" and he'll sweeten it up for you. Ask for him to set the Flight Director one step ahead of where you are - speeds, heading bug, etc. so you are flying towards the FD. And don't get flustered or shaken. You'll be fine.

HTH
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